Magging a reel

g1zmo · November 06, 2012, 10:16:14 PM

I've bought a 2nd hand Penn 545 for uptiding in the Bristol Channel (Cod, Conger Eel, Rays, Smoothound and Tope). I've owned Penn 525's in the past and know how fast they run and this big brother reel is no exception, I've used 3 in one oil for the bearings, have both brake blocks fitted and have under filled the spool with 30lb line however it's still only just manageable for casting even with the spool tensioner done up quite tight and on a moving boat deck would be quite a handful. My plan is to fit some Rare Earth Disk Neodymium Magnets to the non handle side in order to make an easier smoother casting reel and I wonder if anyone has any hints or tips. I've found this site

http://www.ehow.com/how_8663494_mag-avet.html

But if anyone has more information I'd be grateful to hear it.

buitrechico · November 07, 2012, 12:26:13 AM

Penn UK used to make a knobby magnet sideplate for that reel. It's so much better than fixed magnets

Before magging your 545 I would try with thicker oil in the bearings

Richard

g1zmo · November 07, 2012, 01:26:12 AM

Thank you Richard I will be trying the thicker oils route. I've had an interesting answer on the WSF forum from a Welsh member 'Surflite'

"Having had a look at the schematic for the 545, fitting a monomag type brake to the non-drive side plate, would interfere with the centrifugal brake system.

You could possibly glue the magnet(s) to the gearbox inner panel, as these reels are large, and should accommodate a couple. Obviously they wouldn't be adjustable.
I've done this to a (casting) practice reel, a Daiwa 6HM, and it works very well!

With only two pins for brake blocks, and very large spool being used for for an abrupt uptide casting style, I'm not surprised you're having problems! A spool of this size will create a lot more inertia during the cast, as compared to a 525.

I suggest you keep the centrifugal system, and as previously suggested, run the spool bearings in (a lot) heavier oil, and add STP (oil additive) to the spindle, and this will create drag in the pinion gear as the spool rotates. It's thixotropic, so it will be clingy at the start of the cast, but then it "shears" and will "slip" instead of "grab" as the cast gets away.

If this is not enough then add the STP to the bearings. You'll probably find this is overkill, but mixing STP with a lighter oil (start with a 50/50 ratio), could give the ideal set-up.

It's what I've been using in my Shimano Speedmasters' bearings, (11CFS and 11FS) and it's a cheap effective solution!

Ideally, you should control the spool speed by oil/blocks/ and/or mag combinations, as excessive spool tension just hides the problem.
You will probably damage the shims (and eventually the spindle end nob/adjuster), at the spindle ends, but the spindle of that size would take some punishment before distorting.

If, like me, you have some mechanical sympathy, try and get the reel tuned (slow enough) to allow a fraction of (spool) end float, and you will be rewarded with a sweeter running reel!"

So I'll go back to the drawing board and try thicker oil first then maybe try a combination of one or two magnets. I'll have a look about but I don't think the modified 'knobby mag' side-plate is available anymore.

buitrechico · November 07, 2012, 02:15:00 AM

The answer on the WSF forum is absolutely right.Go ahead and try different combinations,and also do not forget that many times a well educated "thumb" is one of the best solutions.

Tight lines!

Richard

Irish Jigger · November 07, 2012, 09:31:52 AM

New Knobby Mag side plates are available in England, £12.50 ea. PM me if interested.

g1zmo · November 07, 2012, 12:58:26 PM

Quote from: Irish Jigger on November 07, 2012, 09:31:52 AM
New Knobby Mag side plates are available in England, £12.50 ea. PM me if interested.

Many thanks for the heads up I have now ordered a magged sideplate

Irish Jigger · November 07, 2012, 06:05:11 PM

Glad you got fixed up.

buitrechico · November 07, 2012, 07:19:24 PM

Great! ,when you get the new side plate installed let me know if everything's ok.I think you will have to take the sliding pins guide out of the spool (I'm not sure now,can't remember the exactly position of the magnet considering the spool's side, but pins guide probably hits the magnet when the spool spins

Richard

g1zmo · November 08, 2012, 07:35:42 PM

Just a quick follow up. The magged side plate from Penn has arrived and what a difference it's made. I have had to remove the brake block pins from the spindle as the magnet (which is quite large approx 12mm across) would have been in the way as the reel spun but the knobby mono mag has a big range of adjustment and at it's highest setting reduces the spin time to 4-5 secs (when spun firmly using my thumb). I haven't cast with it yet (and looking at Mondays advance forecast when it would have it's trial run I think it'll be a while before it gets an outing) but it has made a big difference to the reel. Many thanks for all the help and advice.

buitrechico · November 09, 2012, 03:30:52 AM

You're welcome.I think 8 seconds spin time would be ok as a starting point.Anyway,you've got to find your own magnetic brake setting considering your casting technique,sinker and bait weights and line diameter you use.

Richard

Decker · March 26, 2018, 04:46:00 PM

Has anyone ever attempted to mag a reel with a stainless steel spool? I think it is possible... Understood that the weight of the spool gives it more momentum than an aluminum spool, so stronger magnets may be required. The stainless spool is lighter than a chrome one. Not sure how the conductivity of the different metals factors in.

Quote from: Roger on December 27, 2010, 03:50:36 AMhttp://alantani.com/index.php?topic=883.msg6191#msg6191
Don't need 'em on the spool.It'll work with either an aluminum or with the chromed brass spools. It won't work with a plastic spool. The spinning spool along with the magnets create their own magnetic field. It's called Lenz's Law

My idea is to mag a reel that would be used for deep dropping (not casting). With 2-3 lbs of lead and 500+ feet of water, I would like to control the speed of the spool on the drop, and especially stop (or limit) backlash when it hits bottom.

mo65 · March 26, 2018, 05:11:48 PM

Hey Joe, I can offer my experience with magging, for what it's worth. What I discovered is spool weight has all the world to do with effect. The heavier the spool...the less effect magging has on it. This includes what is attached to that spool also! Trying to slow a spool with 5-6 oz. of sinker tied on just can't be controlled as easily as a spool hosting a 1/2 oz. lure. This tends to make me think the momentum your dropping bait is going to build will be tough for a magnet to overcome. My advise should cause someone to flame out...but I'm going to offer it anyway! Just tighten up the side bearing a little. All this noise about them needing to be sloppy loose is just that...noise. I have my bearings set where they squeeze the spool just hard enough to keep it from spinning wild, and I've never ruined one. Hell, who cares if one does wear out? I've got a sack full...and eBay has a few for sale...Hee hee!

xjchad · March 26, 2018, 05:20:15 PM

Quote from: mo65 on March 26, 2018, 05:11:48 PM
Hey Joe, I can offer my experience with magging, for what it's worth. What I discovered is spool weight has all the world to do with effect. The heavier the spool...the less effect magging has on it. This includes what is attached to that spool also! Trying to slow a spool with 5-6 oz. of sinker tied on just can't be controlled as easily as a spool hosting a 1/2 oz. lure. This tends to make me think the momentum your dropping bait is going to build will be tough for a magnet to overcome. My advise should cause someone to flame out...but I'm going to offer it anyway! Just tighten up the side bearing a little. All this noise about them needing to be sloppy loose is just that...noise. I have my bearings set where they squeeze the spool just hard enough to keep it from spinning wild, and I've never ruined one. Hell, who cares if one does wear out? I've got a sack full...and eBay has a few for sale...Hee hee!

Joe, I'm going to second Mo on this one.
That much weight and that heavy of spool, you'd need a lot of magnets in there (more than you can fit I'm pretty sure).
I think what Mo said about tightening the spool bearings would help. What about adding a leather thumb flap to the rear cross bar and slow it by hand?

mo65 · March 26, 2018, 05:31:32 PM

Quote from: xjchad on March 26, 2018, 05:20:15 PM
What about adding a leather thumb flap to the rear cross bar and slow it by hand?

I think Chad just enlightened me! I've seen gazoodles of old star drag conventionals with leather thumb flaps on them...and always wondered why would anyone slap a knucklebuster thumb flap on a star drag reel. It never occurred to me that the flap could be used to control a dropping bait!

Decker · March 26, 2018, 05:45:01 PM

Mo, is Curley representing me or you?

I thought of using the spool tension. I've surf-casted 6-8 oz of lead with a magged reel, but admittedly I'm also using my thumb on the spool flange. Sure, deep-dropping uses a lot more weight. One of the cool things about the Lenz effect is that it would dampen the spinning speed of the spool, controlling momentum, if I understand correctly.

It may not sound very practical

but reading about the innovations of others on the site makes me wonder.

Maybe we can invent a magnetic drag for stopping tuna,sharks, and billfish