Drag stack

Alto Mare · December 22, 2012, 02:50:07 PM

I'm not sure you're getting it, Bmitch. Let me try to confuse things a little more

.
Think of the gear being the platform, placing a fiber washer and keyed washer first will allow those washer to spin on the platform ( gear). Adding another fiber washer and an eared washer, the eared washer will create another platform and so on. As Jimmer mentioned, you'll need to alternate, adding two of the same will only take up space...no additional drag.
Keyed washers spin with the gear sleeve, that's what creates drag..

Keta · December 22, 2012, 04:17:13 PM

Quote from: BMITCH on December 22, 2012, 02:31:04 PM
On this gear you can't puta fiber than an eared. This is due to the slots for the eared not extending all the way to the bottom of the gear. So the only choice to start is fiber than key.

If you start CF, eared, CF......the eared washer turns with the gear and the bottom CF washer does not contribute to the drag. You have to alternate eared keyed, starting with a keyed washer so one turns with the gear sleeve, the other with the gear. Friction between the CF washer and the counter rotating metal washers is what created drag.

BMITCH · December 22, 2012, 06:02:40 PM

Jimmer,Alto,Keta...it makes it perfectly clear now..fully understand why they need to alternate and the reason why the last in stack needs to be eared on the gear. Just wasn't seeing it. NOW for another stupid question. Why do we not use a fiber washer under the main gear that does NOT extend over the gear sleeve?? All the ones that have been recommended in this position extend over the teeth of the gear sleeve,thus leaving dust/grease deposits on the dog. I understand that you get more drag pressure with the larger cf due to the pressure applies to the teeth. Won't that interfere with the dog eventually??

Jimmer · December 22, 2012, 06:19:35 PM

You can cut the under gear washer to the size of the AR star if you want to, I haven't had a problem with the larger washer interfering with the dog but it could probably happen.

George4741 · December 23, 2012, 03:07:17 AM

Quote from: BMITCH on December 22, 2012, 06:02:40 PM

Why do we not use a fiber washer under the main gear that does NOT extend over the gear sleeve?? All the ones that have been recommended in this position extend over the teeth of the gear sleeve,thus leaving dust/grease deposits on the dog. I understand that you get more drag pressure with the larger cf due to the pressure applies to the teeth. Won't that interfere with the dog eventually??

The under-gear washers that Dawn includes with her drag washer sets are of the smaller diameter you prefer. At least I've gotten them with the squidder and 113H carbon fiber washer sets. They are thinner, too, and work nicely. Here is an example of one below:

This smaller CF washer is part of a 113H kit.

Quote from: BMITCH on December 20, 2012, 11:35:15 AM

Also what if you were to have a slightly smaller O.D. Metal and fiber washer on top in relation to the ones below that are in the gear?

Why would you want to do that, unless there is a clearance issue and you don't want to dremel the sideplate? But yes, you can do it, you'll just have less drag.

Alto Mare · December 23, 2012, 04:57:56 AM

Great shot George! It also shows that a ss dog and sleeve would be a good upgrade.

George4741 · December 23, 2012, 12:25:29 PM

Sal, you're right about that. This reel is a basket case and needs a few upgrades.

BMITCH · December 23, 2012, 02:51:44 PM

I too have orderd sets of cf washers from dawn. The ones I got(last week) did have a smaller washer for under the main gear. I got the ones for the jigmaster,113 and 114. Without going into much detail. The jigmaster sets did have a smaller cf washer,but it still extended beyond the teeth of the gear sleeve. Is this correct. The 113 set did have the smaller one that you have pictured. And the 114 set again a smaller diameter one for under the main,but still extending past the gear teeth on the gear sleeve. Should I be ordering the washers by size?? As far as the smaller diameter washers on top of the stack...the thought was that in the 3+1 setup may be I could putan extra set of washers in to increase drag. As long as the last washer is in the gear and eared. Just a thought.

BMITCH · December 23, 2012, 03:18:26 PM

George, I guess my question is.. The washer you show on top extends past the gear teeth on the sleeve, right? The one below that does not, right? Should all the washers under the main gear be like the one pictured on the bottom? This would not interfere with the dogs over time. Does this decrease drag due to not hitting the teet, thus less surface area making contact?? I'm not sure what to be ordering at this point. And. I'm not sure that the sets that were sent are correct. I know these are some lame questions,but I feel I want to get it right finally. I've been in and out of these reels a bunch of time now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

Alto Mare · December 23, 2012, 03:22:14 PM

If you have the smaller washer for under the gear, use it. I've been using the same washer that goes in the stack for under the gear on my 113H's, no problems to report as of yet.
I haven't caught a nice size fish on it yet, but Pescachaser (Dominick) has with one of my reels. That reel had the same washer under the gear as the ones in the drag stack. He reported that the reel worked flawlessly, I'm sure when Dominick opens it up for service, he will let me know if he sees anything out of the ordinary.

BMITCH · December 23, 2012, 03:39:55 PM

Alto, thanks for the input. I need to start putting the six or so reels back together. I know I'm over thinking the whole deal, but I would hate to lose a decent fish on something that could be avoided. Control your controllables. Right? This site has basically createda monster. Can't enough. Btw, have you ever double dogged a Newell?

Keta · December 23, 2012, 04:18:07 PM

Some softer Penn HT-100 washers possibly could cause problems but the Carbontex ones are OK. Dawn will sell smaller OD under washers separately. The dogs are thinner than the "gear" on the gear sleeve so there is clearance and I try to break the edges of my dogs so there is no sharp corner......sometimes my QC isn't that good and one or two might have got past me.

After 2 50" halibut I took my double dog 113HN apart to look and found no problems, I did replaced the larger underwasher at the same time because I had a few of the new ones from Smooth Drag.

George4741 · December 23, 2012, 04:59:25 PM

Quote from: BMITCH on December 23, 2012, 03:18:26 PM
George, I guess my question is.. The washer you show on top extends past the gear teeth on the sleeve, right? The one below that does not, right? Should all the washers under the main gear be like the one pictured on the bottom? This would not interfere with the dogs over time. Does this decrease drag due to not hitting the teet, thus less surface area making contact?? I'm not sure what to be ordering at this point. And. I'm not sure that the sets that were sent are correct. I know these are some lame questions,but I feel I want to get it right finally. I've been in and out of these reels a bunch of time now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

Yes, the top washer extends past the teeth on the gear sleeve and the bottom one doesn't. I don't think the smaller one reduces the amount of drag, since I get some very serious drag numbers on some of the reels I use the smaller ones on. On my 2/0 senator I use a smaller cf washer because of clearance problems. On my other reels I use whatever washer is handy. I don't use my reels enough to show any appreciable wear, yet.

BMITCH · December 24, 2012, 10:14:46 AM

Ok guys/gals. Has anyone had success cutting the carbontex washers cleanly. That is without special tooling? A hack like me will just butcher them( I've tried on several occasions) they never seem to come out very round.

Keta · December 24, 2012, 01:37:15 PM

I use a bench grinder or sander to resize the OD and a Dremmel to open up the ID. For the ID hold a CF washer between two old eared washer to guide the Drimmel stone (one CF washer at a time) and for the OD use an old gear sleeve on a bridge, put a spacer on the gear sleeve (a stack of washers with a smaller OD work), a keyed washer, the CF washers to resize, another old keyed washer, another spacer and tighten it down with the handle screw. Grind the CF down to the washer and you have a nice looking resized CF washer.

Try to avoid breathing the CF dust.