Gemini Alpha Bait Clips

[Fish-aholic]

Hi Richard,

I'm more than happy to help when I can.  

Regarding the alpha bait clips; it's not because I don't think the bait clips don't work properly, but I find it's a item that has never caught on to becoming a popular product. I don't know the reasons why this is so - or why I've never used the bait clips myself. Maybe there's a simple reason why the alpha bait clips are not popular? Maybe because there are better bait clip systems already available - or maybe it's a case of 'ease of use'?

I used the search facility on a large UK forum and there was very little information to be found.   What info' I did find was the alpha bait clips were good for small baits. At least I found that youtube link for homemade one's and I think I'll also give it a try and see how it works out for my fishing. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

The new Namix bait clips operate in the same manner as the breakaway IMP's. But what I noticed from the link you supplied, the new namix leads have incorporated a chute for water to aid in propping the bait clip to release the bait. I'm not sure if those bait clips would work on anything other than the newly designed namix leads?

Can I ask, what rigs will you be using bait clips on. Multiple hook rigs (2-3 seperate hook lengths) - or large baits to be used on a single hook length rigged up pennell style? Pennell means having slid on a hook on the hook length, while another hook is tied on. After baiting up the tied on hook, you then slid the other hook down to the bait wrap it 3/4 times around the hook length and nip it into the top of the large bait. This improves hook up ratios and bait presentation. Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs?

Here's a link to differing pennell set ups: http://www.worldseafishing.com/tackle/shorerigs/how_to_build_2_hook_pennel_variants.html

From a still raining, cold and sunless, Wales    

Steve

[Jeri]

Hi Ricardo,

Down here in Namibia we have a similar problem, obviously the usual import duties, as well as the seriously escalating costs of freight for bringing in products from abroad. Importing sinkers would be seriously prohibitive, so we import moulds and then locally make the newer designs.

With the clips, as mentioned before, we had troubles with some of the standard UK size of Gemini products, as they weren't big enough for the majority of our fishing. So we looked at the design, redrew the product to slightly larger proportions, and then looked round for someone with access to the slightly stiffer brands of stainless steel wire, and had them make some for us. Tested the prototypes, and offered some to our clients to test with rods that we had made, and when we had just favourable results coming back, we had 'our man' make us several thousand. We now have a product that works in our local waters with reliability, and we sell them to all the competition anglers, and even had to offer a few as 'free samples' to guys that had used Gemini clips previously, and found their limitations. They are now firm customers of ours – for 'our' clips.

We do the same with our sinkers, and the 'in built' clip, and have even seen the idea being taken up elsewhere by other tackle shops. Ideas are not new, just playing around with different materials, and adapting designs for local situations.

The point with the various 'mobile' clips is that in our situation, they either are so tight they damage the sinker line, or too weak to take the loads imposed by casting some of our bigger baits – normal surf fishing often requires us to cast a whole Sardine, so quite a heavy bait when compare to the majority of the baits that are being cast in European waters – sure they do occasionally cast comparable baits – but it is generally not the norm. They have designed products that suit their local market, while the ideas are sound, occasionally the product doesn't quite suit a different fishing situation elsewhere in the world.

Seeing on your list of species, a huge similarity of species to those that we catch here with regularity, Corvima = Kob, Stenbras = Sargo, and all the sharks, I would assume that you are casting into similar situations as we do here in Namibia, and probably use similar tactics.

We did look initially when starting our tackle shop and custom rod building business, at all the 'goodies' that were available in the UK and Europe, and even tried a lot of the products, only to find that they were designed for a different market to ours. We adapted some of the ideas, the clips being an example, but built them to suit 'local' conditions, others we discarded as nice idea, but not right for the local situation. One of our competitors is going down a similar route at the moment, importing loads of Euro 'goodies', and finding that they don't quite work locally.

We have a similar situation with the rods, where some of the UK manufacturers build awesome blanks, they aren't quite suited to the local situation, and we have now developed ideas for blanks that ideally suit our local market, which use some of the UK design concepts, but have been developed to the local situation. A point is that both here in Namibia and in Argentina, we fish direct into 'oceanic' waters, and are targeting much larger fish than folks fishing in relatively sheltered waters around the UK and Europe, for generally smaller species.

Before the folks in the UK jump up in horror at the last comment – please read on. Our average day on the beach will target and usually succeed in catching Kob in the 5kg range (11lbs), and there are not many days that we fish and draw a blank – probably less than 2%. Some days we are limited in our fishing time, by reaching the fisheries management limits of 10 edible species before we are done fishing, returning home off the beach by 2.00PM, leaving the fish biting. Our shark fishing is divided into medium and large, where the medium fish are generally 10-20kgs – like Smoothhounds, while the large sharks are generally in the 50-100kg bracket. So, the comments about UK and European surf fishing are not meant as derisory, but as a reasonably accurate observation of comparison.

The point is to look at a product design, and see if it realistically will work in your local situation, and adapt as necessary – it may well be a good design and idea. Look at how over the last 15 years or so wind-on leaders have adapted – originally and idea for joining bulky fly lines to fine leaders for trout fishing, then adapted the principle was used by big game anglers for joining leaders to main lines, then we saw them being used in a surf situation for our heavy shark leaders, and now they are finding their way as essential pieces of kit for distance carp anglers looking to present fluorocarbon leaders as end tackle. Adaptation of a good idea to suit a multitude of different angling situations. Look at the differences of needs on this very board, between the various big game anglers and perhaps those using baitcaster reels, and those using surf casting reels – and how we all with different needs lubricate our spool bearings or bushes. No one is right or wrong, we just all have different priorities according to our fishing styles and techniques.

Keep an open mind, identify your priorities, and take the best that can be offered for this very widely diverse and well informed group of people. Someone out there has the answer you are looking for, but equally the others aren't wrong.

Cheers from sunny Africa – off line for the next 10 hours – going fishing.


Jeri

[buitrechico]

Hi Steve,
             I use bait clips on clip down rigs(3 snoods in cascade/small baits),clip down rigs(1 snood/large baits),clip down rigs(long snood/bent clip up/3 hooks in tandem/large baits) and pulley rigs (small/large baits).If you're going to give a try (self made bait clip) let me know how it works out for fishing (I  think that the home made fast link as shown in the video would not be capable of withstanding a powerful cast using a 4-5 oz lead,unless you use a thicker wire.
If still raining in Wales you'll be able to fish from the door of your house

We'll keep in contact

From a hot like hell and too much sunny summer in Buenos Aires (we are melting )

[buitrechico]

Hi Jeri,
         I think you're still on line before going fishing.Excelent report,I'm very impressed.You're absolutely right,we fish direct into oceanic waters and generally larger fishes, also we share the same customs duty/taxes problem.I thank you very much for your advises.I'm trying different fishing devices to see how they perform,but probably in not much time we'll have to do exactly what you've done.

Tight lines and good fishing

Ricardo

PS:Would you put some pics of "your"clips?

[Fish-aholic]

Jeri, you have hit the nail on the head with your last post. Don't worry, no jumping up in horror from myself - maybe a tad envious, though, saltwater fishermen in the UK know full well the difference between the offerings of Africa (lucky so and so's), compared to the offerings of the UK Like you said, Jeri, what's suitable in one country, probably wont be suitable somewhere else (horses for courses). The species of fish determine the tactics employed and it really is a trial and error practice. Learn from your mistakes and it will definately make you a better angler for it.

Richard, you are certainly on the ball. I had the exact same thought about the 'homemade' fastlinks from the video I supplied. I wouldn't be comfortable power casting with the gauge of wire he used in the video. The Breakaway fastlinks are made from a thicker gauge wire and that's what I personally use for power casting 5-7oz leads with bait. I fish the Bristol Channel and it has the 2nd highest rise and tide fall in the world. The tides are very fierce and baits need to be anchored to the seabed.

The rigs you are using are the same as the UK's. The Pulley rig is my 'go to rig' aimed at larger species. My pulley rigs incorporate interchangeable hook lengths. Basically, instead of having a swivel to attach onto the hook length, I use a gemini genie clip. This enables me to make two seperate hook lengths for the same rig body for the pulley rig. This is called double patting. I bait up one hook length and cast out into the sea; with the other spare hook length, I bait it up ready for a quick interchange when retrieved. Speed = more fish 

When I trial the 'homemade' alpha bait clips, I'll let you know my findings.

From a now lightly snowing, sunless Wales. Lightly snowing means it isn't sticking to the ground. Rubbish snow. lol!

Steve.

[buitrechico]

Hi Steve,
            Sut ydych chi heddiw? ,I think that instead of the plastic tube,burn the edge with a lighter and press against a knife blade you can use a  stainless steel or even aluminum tube rivet



http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/283168721/Aluminum_Brass_tube_rivet.html


Richard

From a burning hot Buenos Aires

PS:Your pulley rig is very interesting

[Jeri]

Hi  Ricardo & Steve,

We rarely use more than one bait, except for scratching with lighter tackle, so using clips for multi-hook rigs has never really been an issue – so a problem we haven't solved or investigated.

Yesterday was good to get out onto the beach – the tourists have mostly gone home, and it was the first day of calmer seas for 10 days.  The fish were there, but feeding was 'nervous', the Kob were not shoaled up and competitive – so we used pulley rigs. It allows the fish to only feel the flexibility of the rod tip, rather than the drag of the sinker – for the first 60cm or so, by that time they mostly have the bait, so our first choice when the fish are a little shy.

3 good Kob, totalling 20kg – best about 8kg, 1 8kg gully shark, a St. Joseph (a Chimera species – probably like your 'Elephant fish'), a couple of Guitarfish, as well as a host of undersize Kob. A busy morning, for the turn of the tide saw huge amounts of weed coming in, and while we tried other spots, it is not unusual having had such big seas. We were back home just after noon, and busy cleaning fish and tackle.

The pulley rig was really the best option for that sort of circumstance, in a couple of days time, when the fish have fully arrived back inshore and shoaled up, it will back to fixed paternoster – no need for subtle rigs, they will be feeding in competitive mode. Used the sinkers with the release clip all day, no problems; and possibly the pulley rig is potentially the worst rig to use with a release clip, as both legs of line become tight.

Enjoy the snow Steve, I got 'rained on' the first time in 8 years back in October – it was surreal coming originally from the UK!!!

Cheers from sunny Africa,


Jeri

[buitrechico]

Hi Jeri
              You had a good fishing day,specially being the first day of calmer sea,fishes feeding nervous and weeds coming in.Here in Argentina when fishes are shy and nervous we also use pulley rigs but generally with circle hooks. I'm sure you have very good recipes for cooking fish,a good red wine... and you're done!! What  rod and reel do you use for surf casting?

Cheers from Buenos Aires

[buitrechico]

Hi Tom! are you there?

[Jeri]

Hi  Ricardo,

Plenty of good recipes for fresh fish – local variety is to fillet the fish, but leave the skin on the fillet. Make a fire with local hard woods, and burn down to coals – drink plenty of wine or other refreshments while waiting for the wood to burn down. Then coat the flesh side of the fish with apricot jam, and then lightly grill over the coals. The skin on one side, and the caramelised jam on the other, keeps the fish from drying out. Just a hint of apricot flavour to go with the fresh fish – food for kings – best enjoyed eaten with fingers!!!!!!

As for rods, well we are pretty much spoilt, as I use blanks that I have had a part in the design from a couple of our suppliers – as we are a custom rod builder, before dabbling in reels. The latest is a 3 piece with serious power, but remains very flexible in use, best launched with 6-7oz sinkers, but as light as a feather. We have been trialing the prototype over Xmas, and will start to take the blanks seriously next month, but to date it has done really well. On the casting court it has exceeded 190 metres with either sinker – so pretty good as a fishing rod. Though still currently prefer a 2 piece that we had late last year, it really launches, but you need fast reels to give the sinker the line, as the launch/tip speed is so high.


Cheers from dark Africa – the sun has gone down,


Jeri

[Jerseymic]

Jeri,

If I may say your recipe for the grilled fish with Apricot jam sounds amazing, I will try it out next chance I get to BBQ. Unfortunately living down here in the South West of the U.K. we get a lot of rain, I think I need to build a shed over the BBQ!!

Mike.

[buitrechico]

Hi Jeri,
          It must smell exquisit!, a good fresh fish covered with apricot jam ,lightly grilling over "hard wood coals"... man!!....I'm hungry
Thank you so much for the recipe.We'll keep in contact.

Richard

PS:You put the apricot jam during grilling or at the beggining? 

[Irish Jigger]

Hi Tom! are you there?

Hi Richard,Yes as a former beach/surf angler I am following this thread with great interest.
Reached the 75 year mark today and gave thanks for a good life and look forward to the next 25 years.
Had a few hot whiskies to celebrate and finished the day working on a Penn Albacore Special for a friend, yes we do have Albacore off the south west coast of Ireland where they are commercially fished during the summer.

Cheers,from a cold,wet and windy  Emerald Isle.

[Alto Mare]

Happy 75th Tom, I hope you have many more. All the best to you buddy.
Sal

[buitrechico]

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the best .I've sent you a personal message

Richard