Don't know Squat about the TLD 20

Ken_D · January 24, 2013, 07:38:28 PM

Hi, Shimano gurus.... I eyeballed the tutorial on the above style reels, to get an overview before I open it. Is it normal for the handle to turn extremly hard, as the drag knob pre-program dial is tightened, and the slider approaches and goes past strike. I was presented with a reel as such.

The coffee-grinder noise and heavy vibrations should be gears and bearings, but this handle tightening thing seems like something is totally wrong, or the reel has this characteristic all along. Thanks for any and all advisories. KD.

Bryan Young · January 24, 2013, 07:49:42 PM

First of all, sounds like the pinion bearing is bad and needs to be replaced. I think the max setting of that reel at strike is around 12#...or was it 15#... Someone please confirm. Anyhoo, if you exceed the max drag, the pinion bearing will get damaged even when it is not fished.

Ken_D · January 24, 2013, 07:56:44 PM

Acknowledged, Bryan, thanks, does this cause the crank to be that stiff when cranking. Way back at freespool, and light pre-program, the crank operates quite well, but as soon as I start tightening things up the crank gets very hard to turn. Is this normal for a lever drag?

I've just been over that the Shimano web page, and went over the 24 page pdf file on the lever drag reels. I printed off the pages on setting drag, etc, to send back with the reel for the sport to look at.

akfish · January 24, 2013, 08:07:36 PM

The handle will be hard to turn on any lever drag if the preset is set for too much drag or if the pinion bearing is bad. The two are related: If you set the drag too high and cause the handle to be hard to turn, you'll crunch the pinion bearing and need to replace it. Pinion bearings are almost consumables in graphite framed lever drags. I suspect that half of the TLDs and Charter Specials I see in my shop need new pinion bearings.

Ken_D · January 24, 2013, 08:13:07 PM

Rodger that, AK... thanks...as above I just got back from the Ld manual pages at Shimano, and they state very clearly in bold print a warning only to make drag adjustments while in freespool, not in gear.

http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/customer_service0/instruction_manuals.download.-mainParsys-000118-downloadFile.html/US_TLD.pdf

page 6.

Ken_D · January 25, 2013, 05:06:47 PM

Hmmm.... I'm struggling to understand how a large bearing such as the top pinion bearing can get destroyed by axial loading..corrosion I can get, but not loading via drag....are you referring to the smaller pinion bearing at the ~other~ end of the pinion ?? Thanks. ps: there's no corrosion. The pinion itself looks a bit worn, so I'll buy a new one, and a new main.

SoCalAngler · January 25, 2013, 06:24:29 PM

The pinion pushes against the side of the bearing, thats the axial loading. When the force gets too much it danages that bearing. Other bearings like thrust and angular contact bearings handle the side load much better but that is not type used in most reels.

Bryan Young · January 25, 2013, 07:06:06 PM

I noticed that there are more thrust bearing sizes becoming available but this is not a complete solution because the pinion gear will bind with both races of the thrust bearing. I have a solution that I would like to experiment with, but have yet had the time to do so.

Ken_D · January 26, 2013, 05:49:18 AM

Quote from: SoCalAngler on January 25, 2013, 06:24:29 PM
The pinion pushes against the side of the bearing, thats the axial loading. When the force gets too much it danages that bearing. Other bearings like thrust and angular contact bearings handle the side load much better but that is not type used in most reels.

Uh, yes, I am fully aware of axial loading and radial loading...the question went to the two bearings affected by the pinion....the top brg is quite large, (no calipers closeby), at about one inch outside, and 1/2' inside. Bigger than the wee little one on the other end of the pinion.

Your explantion will serve those that were not aware of the two types of load the two pinion bearings experiance, but it did not really answer the question... which of the two bearings is more likely to be damaged by the axial forces from too much drag.

75.00 later, I will have my answer, if the form of brand new bearings, and drive/pinion gears, when Shimano Canada sends me the parts I ordered this afternoon.

SoCalAngler · January 26, 2013, 06:12:20 AM

In this schematic number part number 215 is the pinion bearing and sits in the right sideplate. Bearings 216 are right spool bearing which is inside the spool and the drag plate bearing which as you can see is under the drag plate. Part 215 is the issue most of the time with the problems you discribed.

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/98TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

Ken_D · January 26, 2013, 06:14:55 PM

Rodger that, thanks... I will report back, after the fresh parts arrive and are installed. The pinion definitely showed signs of wear on the sides of each tooth, so I got a new pinion and main gear as well.

By eye, the 215 bearing looked and sounded ok out of the reel, spun by hand with no load, then again with the sideplate installed, and spun around, like a New Year's noisemaker, as the main gear post was held, and the assy spun about. No signs of chatter, or rough spots. Of course, these were not fishing tests, where the bb would be loaded with both types.