Original Penn 30 - belleville washers

[UKChris]

I have just aquired an old and origial Penn 30 - the one with the chrome bars, reel foot and 'ivory barrel' handle - in what looks like very good condition. I will be taking it apart and servicing it shortly but would value your opinions on how the belleville washers ought to be arranged. I am well aware that their stacking greatly alters drag profile and performance so would like to know what the 'stock' layout ought to be before fiddling around.

Thank you guys,

[Robert Janssen]

()()

[UKChris]

Thank you, kind sir!

What a mine of information this place is, and such helpful folks.

[Jimmer]

Here's some info on international drag bellevilles from mysticparts.com   https://www.mysticparts.com/Repair/DiscSpringTension.aspx


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Robert Janssen]

Yes. However, the diagram shown in the diagram in the link above is taken somewhat out of context--

the belleville spring washers should never be oriented with the outermost washers facing outward )( thusly.

The reason being, that if arranged suchly, then the outer edge of the belleville spring washer will be abutting the outer edge or shield of the spool bearing on one side, and overreaching the pinion on the other.

For the belleville spring washers to function properly in this scenario, it is desirable to ensure contact between the central portion of the spring washers and adjacent inner bearing race and pinion shoulder respectively.

As may be illustrated in this diagram from Penn:

http://www.google.se/patents?id=ACwvAAAAEBAJ&hl=sv&hl=sv&pg=PA2&img=1&zoom=4&sig=ACfU3U04m7Om3ctMrw10b2zmKrFs1D7G_w&ci=74%2C840%2C469%2C519&edge=0

.

(Fixed the Penn patent link so it can be used ~Mo)

[Irish Jigger]

"A picture is worth a thousand words", thank's Robert.

[UKChris]

Great picture - thanks. I could see that ()() was OK whereas )()( would lead to trouble.
Oddly, I find my reel is ()l() in that there is a little shim between the two pairs of belleville washers. Should it be there and is it in the right place?

There is a 2008 post on the 30SW by Alan that shows such a shim and says it may or may not be there but it is between the bellevilles and the spool bearing l()().

OK the disassembly has begun and the reel is very nice inside - no corrosion so far that I can see - which is great given its age. But I have a problem (the first of many I suspect!). How do I get the drag cover off?

On the 80T and 80STW I've done, the drag cover is held by four little screws but there don't appear to be such things on this reel. So how does it come off please 



D'oh, I think I've found the answer to my own question in a post last year by Alan - apparently I must look for three tabs that have been cunningly hidden to make it hard for beginners to poke around.

[Bryan Young]

personally, i like to put the shim next to the bearing...then it's called a thrust washer.  I cannot give you a scientific reason, but that is where I put all thrust washers.

[UKChris]

Thank you - I will experiment 

[doradoben]

UKChris, I have 2 30VSW's that are the same age. Both were factory new when I bought them from the same tackle store. They were purchased about a month apart. One has a shim between the bellville washers ()l() and the other does not..

[UKChris]

Hi Doradoben,

That's very interesting. I think I will try without the shim first because the reel requires the pre-set to be fully unscrewed at present to get any freespool; I think there would be no harm in having a little bit of an option. But I can always put it back if necessary.

OK the tabs 
I found them without any problem but was a little concerned about how easy they would be to undo and whether there might be damage caused to the shield in removing them. So, I took it gently. A plastic implement didn't have the necessary muscle and was soon fit only for the re-cycling bin  so I moved on to a smallish screwdriver.

By holding the spool in one hand and the screwdriver in the other, I then inserted the tip between the shield and the spool rim and very very gently applied a little twisting, careful not to scratch anything. By holding on to the shield with my third hand  and pulling gently, the shield popped out easily, followed by the various bits of the drag system  .

The drag is the floating doughnut kind and the drag material is dark grey, almost black. I'm not going to change it but will clean the surface with some lighter fluid and kitchen paper to remove any muck and then polish the drag plates on some extra-fine wet-'n'-dry paper on a sheet of plate glass.

Now to the bearings. Having taken off the shields I found a couple were dry; they had grease of a sort but it was congealed around the outside of the bearing race and not really coating theballs. The others were OK. Currently in solvent to remove the dried grease before being repacked with blue sticky stuff (I don't need to cast this reel otherwise I would consider using Rocket Fuel Liquid Grease).

The only other problem I've found is a bit of rust on the main gear where it is fitted to the brass round thingy from the handle shaft. All gone now and polished nicely - was surface only.n
So, when I put it back together it will be as good as new, better in some parts, though the chrome plating to the drag lever knob had flaked off to reveal - grey plastic?

But aren't these old Internationals beautiful? I love the deep colour and I think the spool is much better finished that the modern equivalents like the 80STW I finished recently. Looking forward to fishing it now.

Thanks again everyone.

Chris

[UKChris]

Don't know if anyone will notice this now but having put it back together (with the shim back in) I have encountered a problem. When the drag is giving line under some tension, the drag pulses and it is as regular as clockwork - four bumps per revolution.

Take all apart again and look at the drag plate screwed to the spool - it has shiney bits and dull bits - four of each (see where I'm going?).

So, I smooth out the plate so far as I can using a very large, very flat, very fine oilstone and a lot of care to the point where the matt effect is now almost covering the whole plate. Clean and reassemble.

Outcome - better but there is still the four bumps per revolution. Problem is the drag plate that is fitted to the drive disk also has shiney and dull bits (i.e. high and low spots - four of each). I tried to flatten it too but I quickly found that the central potion of the disk that does not contact the fibre drag donut is thicker than the outer part where the drag washer makes contact. It would take a lifetime to sand the whole disc down on my fine stone.

So, am I right in thinking that the bump bump effect is indeed the high and low spots on the two discs moving past each other as the spool turns against the drag and that if both discs were perfectly flat I'd have no problem?

Also, the cure is either new discs or to make the existing ones perfectly flat, or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Chris

[Robert Janssen]

Yes Chris, that makes sense.

I'm sorry, i don't remember... was this a really old reel with the floating donut drag washer?

Making something completely flat manually is a very, very tedious task...

.

[UKChris]

Yes Robert,
This has the floating donut drag.
I suspect that I either have to buy new disks if they are still available or look at spending a day grinding these discs by hand (lapping them is probably a better word). This, although tedious, is not an impossibility as I have several good and large, stones that I use to sharpen my knives as well as some abrasive paper and micromesh sheets as well as a piece of plate glass. The coarser grits will do the flattening and then I can smooth and polish.
Wish me luck!
Chris