I need a faster retrieve for my 9/0

[akfish]

Yea, up here it is one rod per person except under very rare circumstances when two rods are allowed. I'm guessing that with 12 rods, you need to leave most of them out when you get a strike. Leaving 10 rods out wouldn't work with a wild, saltwater salmon. Maybe with freshwater salmon or lake trout.

[otownjoe]

If a gear set is not available could you use a cordless drill with a line winding tool.they work great for retrieving line without a fish on.I have the "reel crankie "brand and it retrieves Line extremely fast.it could make your 9/0 the first reel everyone grabs instead of the last one.    Joe

[John E Powell]

We're allowed to fish three lines per person here.

The invasion of Zebra Mussels to the Great Lakes through ship ballast water from foreign freshwater ports, and Global Warming has drastically changed the water clarity and depth we must fish at in recent years. I used to run 5 downriggers that held our lures relatively close to the boat as Dominick described, but with the super clear waters we have to contend with, our tactics have evolved to include rigging our baits at staggered distances and depths behind and off to the side of our boats so the baits run in water that is minimally disturbed by our boats.

Years ago, we ran downrigger lures deep below but close behind the transom and 2 Dipsy Divers off the side of the boat to hook fish spooked by the boat. Now, we run just 2-3 downriggers on a given day, with one line per downrigger and the rest are a mixture of divers, leadcore, and copper lines pulled off side planning devices or behind the boat. The most tasking rig, and one of my most productive is my longest heaviest copper line, the rod the 9/0 is mounted to. Each rig has differing actions when trolled through the water. Divers tend to bank and rise (like a plane in a turn) when a boat turns, leadcore undulates like a snake following underwater current shear lines, and copper is a heavy line designed to cut through layers of current and reach really deep depths.

Dipsy Diver lines have evolved from using monofilament to braided wire to pull them, because of the depths we must now target our fish at. We used to run 150' of monofilament to reach salmon at depths of 50' now we have to chase them at depths of 80-130 feet with 250-375 feet of wire to get to those depths. My Copper line rigs, of various lengths, will reach similar depths, but they trail behind the divers to give fish who don't hit the divers running closer to the boat another chance at our baits. Often this second chance is the deciding factor for many fish.

Until recently, tin-coated braided Copper wire came in 32lb and 45lb test weights. I ran the 45lb line on an Okuma Solterra 50L levelwind, it's quite a bit bigger than a Penn 345GT or Fathom 60. We've been working for a while with the new 60lb copper that was just released. It's really large in diameter and quite heavy. I can only get about 400' of this stuff on the Solterra with truly minimal backing (in reality, not enough). So I pressed this 9/0 into service. Now, I am just trying to make the best of it that I can without resorting to mounting an electric motor to it (or buying a different reel). I had a smaller sized Miya Epoch I kept on board for handicapped individuals or kids that were really too small for our fish, and nobody every wanted to land a fish on that rod, I retired it. It had a ridiculously slow retrieve if you used the hand crank.

I wish I had the info to model the necessary parts in 3D. I often wonder if a 3D printer could "print" a set of gears. Would be an interesting task for my students to work on.

[John E Powell]

There are upgrades for the 9/0, unfortunately faster gear is not one of them.

What upgrades are available?

[Alto Mare]

Larger handle. Contrary to your believes a larger handle gives you an advatage....less effort and more cranking power. You could also upgrade the frame posts with a full aluminum frame, but from reading your post, it might not be necessary for your type of fishing. A 1+7 drag stack is also available. Dawn sent me some thin washers to try a while back and I don't know what I did with them, those should put out smoother drag.

[Norcal Pescador]

Now I'm confused, Sal.    I think what you're saying is:

A larger grip, will make your hand and forearm happier, because you aren't wrapping your fingers around a peanut (as Alan says) and exerting a lot of force to turn the crank. The result is a lot less cramping of muscles.

A longer handle arm, which makes turns in a larger diameter circle, will make the cranking easier, but slower.

A shorter handle arm, which makes turns in a smaller diameter circle, will make the cranking harder, but faster.

[Alto Mare]

Well almost. I understand about  radius, this is about cranking force though. For example, you could have a wingnut there and you would be able to turn that spool really fast, but it would be worthless under load. The same principal would be with the shorter handle, while in some cases you're struggling trying to reel in, you could have been there easier and faster with a longer handle arm.
In short, the longer handle is easier and faster than the shorter handle when under load This is my opinion, if you guys rather have the shorter handle, go for it .

[Black Pearl]

There are upgrades for the 9/0, unfortunately faster gear is not one of them. If we get lucky, Black Pearl might offer us faster gears. He's already working on the main gear all we need is the pinion, but that might take a year from now .

Hey Sal,

You are right about the time line on the 9/0.

[Alto Mare]

Hey Sal,

You are right about the time line on the 9/0.

Yea, just make sure they'll ship to the right address

[Black Pearl]

Hey Sal,

You are right about the time line on the 9/0.

Yea, just make sure they'll ship to the right address

Yea, you need to say that to the USPS.

[Alto Mare]

I know its not your fault Alan, maybe one of these California boys tried to snatch them from me .
I'm sure they'll get here sooner or later.....its worth the wait

[Norcal Pescador]

Well almost. I understand about  radius, this is about cranking force though. For example, you could have a wingnut there and you would be able to turn that spool really fast, but it would be worthless under load. The same principal would be with the shorter handle, while in some cases you're struggling trying to reel in, you could have been there easier and faster with a longer handle arm.
In short, the longer handle is easier and faster than the shorter handle when under load This is my opinion, if you guys rather have the shorter handle, go for it .

Despite the Pennsylvania-California language barrier , I know what you're sayin' Sal. What's even more amazing is I agree!

[Shark Hunter]

Hey!
What is this secret code you guys are talking?
You are getting the 114 gears, aren't you?
I knew I couldn't one up the master.

[John E Powell]

Larger handle. Contrary to your believes a larger handle gives you an advatage....less effort and more cranking power. You could also upgrade the frame posts with a full aluminum frame, but from reading your post, it might not be necessary for your type of fishing. A 1+7 drag stack is also available. Dawn sent me some thin washers to try a while back and I don't know what I did with them, those should put out smoother drag.

I understand the relationship between input power, lever arm length (handle length), gear ratio, and loaded spool radius (variances in spool diameter as line is played out and reeled back on the reel). In reality, this all equates to retrieve rates per handle turn. For our fishery, the reel getting the most positive feedback when using copper line is the Okuma Clarion 553 LS which has a retrieve rate significantly greater than the 9/0.

There is an ideal range of handle length that will minimize input power required from the angler given the load applied to the reel (controlled by the drag system). We run about 3 llbs of drag on the reels, so the load to overcome is very light.

The feedback, or complaints, about the 9/0 I get are twofold: the first is the overall weight of the rod/reel combo exacerbated by the very heavy copper line, compared to smaller rigs holding shorter copper line segments, is out of my control. The second problem is the effort to turn the reel handle while attempting to clear this rod out of then way unloaded with no fish. The complaints center around the number of turns it takes not the effort to actually turn the handle. On every other reel i have where there is an option to adjust the handle length by selecting how the handle is mounted to the shaft, the handle ended up being on the shorter radius. With our smaller fish and low drag settings, it's much easier to rotate our wrist and have a little forearm movement on a shorter handle compared to keeping a tight wrist and using the elbow and shoulder as pivot points for a longer handle length. If I was going to run 10-20 lbs of drag I would agree with your assessment a longer handle would be in order. In fact, once the gearing is changed to a quicker retrieve ratio, a handle length change would be required to keep the same input power.

Excluding the actual accuracy of the numbers, I think it's fair to say, for instance, that with 3 lbs of drag the handle length of 3" might work well, with 8-9 lbs of drag 4" might be better, and with 15 lbs of drag 5" would be better? I'm sure there must be an ideal mathematical range to strive for based upon real life experiences. Maybe I'm being naive here... but it seems like it should be easy to model with a spreadsheet if there was concensus on what people felt were exemplar reels that were a true pleasure to use at various drag settings.

[Alto Mare]

I understand the relationship between input power, lever arm length (handle length), gear ratio, and loaded spool radius (variances in spool diameter as line is played out and reeled back on the reel). In reality, this all equates to retrieve rates per handle turn. For our fishery, the reel getting the most positive feedback when using copper line is the Okuma Clarion 553 LS which has a retrieve rate significantly greater than the 9/0.

May I ask what is the spool diameter of the Okuma 553LS? the 9/0 is 4 inches.
I don't believe you'll be able to turn the handle on the 9/0 when retrieving a nice fish if the ratio was 6 to 1. You coiuld, but the start up would be tough. That would be like taking off with a manual car while in third gear.
We like to experiment here, but we also need to stay within our limits, a 3.25 to 1 would make the 9/0 manageable....I think.


Excluding the actual accuracy of the numbers, I think it's fair to say, for instance, that with 3 lbs of drag the handle length of 3" might work well, with 8-9 lbs of drag 4" might be better, and with 15 lbs of drag 5" would be better? I'm sure there must be an ideal mathematical range to strive for based upon real life experiences. Maybe I'm being naive here... but it seems like it should be easy to model with a spreadsheet if there was concensus on what people felt were exemplar reels that were a true pleasure to use at various drag settings.
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I agree, as you increase drag, the handle should also increase in length.