rattle on record 51

fritz1 · August 13, 2013, 05:34:10 AM

hi guys,
i recently had to clean the bearings of this reel. Therefor i had to remove the idler gear on the right sideplate. I cut of the dimple, cleaned both bb and installed the idler again by putting an e-clip on top. Since then i´ve got a rattling during cast which is driving me crazy. $:-\$
I treatet the idler and spool pinion with grease, oil and dry but had no result.

Maybe you encountered this problem before?

thx in advance, fritz1

Ken_D · August 13, 2013, 07:35:27 AM

Hi, Never had this happen, but I would re-look at the ball bearing in the idler. It may be siezed up, and buzzing from the friction of the bb and the post. Push comes to shove, try a plain idler from a present day C3, so the DIN tooth pattern will be the same as the one on the spool.

fritz1 · August 13, 2013, 01:25:24 PM

Hi
I changed the whole idler including the small bb, purchased from mikes rr, with no effect. But i noticed the original bb doesnt fit solid in the original idler, while the new one does. Could the spool pinion cause the trouble?

Thx fritz

fritz1 · August 13, 2013, 06:49:57 PM

I stripped the reel completely once again

any part that i should pay special attention to avoid the rattle?

Thx fritz

Ken_D · August 14, 2013, 03:19:53 AM

Hi... I'm wondering if the rattle you are hearing is a clash of teeth on the spool gear, and the idler.....there are two DIN tooth patterns, that don't marry with each other. Pattern A idler will not marry with pattern B spool, and vice versa. it needs to be A/A, or B/B The spool gear on the Record is second generation DIN pattern.

http://www.abugarcia.com/sites/default/files/schematics/090109RCN60HC1500Titanium.pdf
http://www.abugarcia.com/sites/default/files/schematics/6500C3%201500.pdf

Those are DIN latest, and as seen, spool same as, on the record, and other round reels.
First DIN as below.

http://www.abugarcia.com/sites/default/files/schematics/6500C3%209902.PDF

fritz1 · August 14, 2013, 10:07:40 AM

hi,
they should delivered matching up from the factory. Put it back together and it is still noisy. Next and last step will be to change the bearings one after another. Standard size is 4x10x4, but there are two smaller ones. Did anyone measured the idler- and sideplate bearing before?

thx fritz

Ken_D · August 14, 2013, 03:35:57 PM

Hi F.... another thing to try would be to disengage all the flyweights and have your thumb ready for backlash possibilities. Sometimes the plastic screeches inside the ring on the brake plate. Some folks advocate a thin coat of lube in the ring, others not. I just take a q tip dipped in armor-all, and lightly wipe the circle.

The bb in the non-crank side plate will be a 3 x 10 x 4. The spool has the one way clutch brg, and one bushing and bb at 4 x 10 x 4.

fritz1 · August 15, 2013, 05:35:44 AM

thx ken i´ll give that a try. I would like to smooth up the spool pinion where it touches the axle. Which tools would you recommend?

thx fritz

ps:if someone feels disrespected by my nickname please contact me and i´ll change it instantly!

Ken_D · August 16, 2013, 01:26:12 AM

Quote from: fritz1 on August 15, 2013, 05:35:44 AM
thx ken i´ll give that a try. I would like to smooth up the spool pinion where it touches the axle. Which tools would you recommend?

thx fritz

ps:if someone feels disrespected by my nickname please contact me and i´ll change it instantly!

Hio, Fritz... There's a fellow in South Africa who posts at Mike's forum called FritzAbu... Fritz is a given name in many countries, along with an e-handle. Anyway... If you have a dremel tool or it's clone, I'd chuck a cotton bud (trade name q-tip), wetted with something like Vim, Brasso, silvo, etc, and wind 'er up inside the pinion. Up this way, we pay 16.99 for a dremel clone. I'd cut the shaft of the bud quite short, as the torque of the rotary tool will deform it, and cause it to wreck.

fritz1 · August 16, 2013, 05:23:15 PM

Ok, i'll try and share the result.

Thx fritz

0119 · August 16, 2013, 08:53:52 PM

Ain't nothing wrong with Fritz! I'm Henry Detlef, son of Heinrich, grandson of Johannes. Fritz is a great name

fritz1 · August 17, 2013, 07:15:51 AM

all right...
is there any effect on polishing the wormgear and pawl. If so, how do you treat the grooves?

thx fritz

Mandelstam · August 17, 2013, 09:56:19 AM

There's a great guide on tuning old Ambassadeur's by Tim Parrat posted on Realsreels.com. It covers every part that benefits from polishing.
http://www.realsreels.com/servicing/ReelTuningoldAmbassadeurs.pdf

You can polish the ends of the wormgear. If you want to improve the pawl I think you have to with a ceramic one, but I don't know if there are any that fits your reel.

Ken_D · August 17, 2013, 07:26:08 PM

Quote from: fritz1 on August 17, 2013, 07:15:51 AM
all right...
is there any effect on polishing the wormgear and pawl. If so, how do you treat the grooves?

thx fritz

If it was me, I _would_ install a ceramic line pawl...as per Mandelstam's above. It will do its thing in very short order...taking care of any burrs left over from machining the worm, smoothing things out nicely.

A ceramic line pawl can last up to 10 times longer, depending on how silty the water is, for just under double the cost of a metal one... which is a pretty good deal. Line pawls are the same from a 1500 on up to a 7000 and beyond, for the SE round reels.

fritz1 · August 18, 2013, 08:32:20 AM

hi,
very nice guide, thx. The ceramic pawl sounds a great deal, will they be louder like the bearings do?

I´m not done with the bearings yet

Are you able to describe the bearings sound, fine and faulty, by a video? I guess a channel related to this board, perhaps on you...., would be an incredible addition.

thx fritz