Help on my penn 113hsp Total Upgrade/Rebuild Question-HELP!

[broadway]

Hey Guys,
   Sorry to post a question my first time on here, but I can really use a hand with my first time attempt, total take down and shake up.  I have read and learned more from Alan than anyone just from reading all the posts and tutorials on all the forums I frequent, and just found out he's got one of his own...thanks for having me aboard!! 
   My questions have to do with my Penn 113HSP's (4).  I do a lot of wirelining stripers with these bad boys, and have spent four long hours on this one reel, today.  I have put it together 4 times and I still can't get it ;(  I printed a schematic from a website (very reputable) and it says there are (2) key #8 and (1) #8A- well, when I took the stack off the gear sleeve I wasn't paying attention (rookie mistake, I know, but I'm a rookie) and I followed the Smoothdrag diagram, however I only have (1) Key #8 and my #8A is a thicker than the metal drag washers (feel more like a standard washer than a tension spring, Hmmm?
   I also can't figure out where the non handle side bearing retainer went (It wasn't in the reel for sure.)  I laid out my towel and supplies as per Alan T. tutorials and advice (I even made a bearing puller out of my penn wrench:) I definitely didn't lose it, but is it necessary?  I opened the other 3 reels and they all have it.  This is my first attempt at any maintenance and upgrade, or anything.  Next question, how do I know when the spool is seated properly between the sideplates-it never really locks in, at least in the 4 times I tried?  Am I supposed to push the bearing under the pinion all the way in?  FYI- My upgrades include: Tiburon T4 Topless, K.O Custom Handles, Stainless gear sleeve, stainless yoke, Newell 4:1 gears, carbontex drags, and ground smooth metal drags. I wanted to have some muscle behind me, whatcha think?  I'll post photos when there done.  PS thanks for your help in advance, and I can put this baby together in an hour now, from bare side plate to closin' her up.  Just a bit more help and you will have made me sufficient at my own maintenance.  Thanks to all who post I appreciate all the knowledge you guys are spouting.
Dom

[akfish]

Your problems with the spring ashes (8 and 8a) may be due to the fact that Penn changed the configuration between versions of 113H. The same thing may what's stumping you on the left side bearing; Penn used at least two kids of bearings there. I haven't checked but I believe MysticParts.com has schematics for the various versions, and I'm sure they have notes in the parts lists for different bearings and spring washers.

As for seating the spool: On those reels it is vital that the left end bearing be set so that there is a tiny bit of side to side play in the spool. If you can't set the bearing to eliminate any play, then odds are that you've warped the side plates. That can be caused from fishing the reel with the bearing cinched down too tightly.


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[broadway]

Akfish,
   Thanks for the reply.  Spring ashes? you mean tension springs?  My 113'sl are only 3 years old, should I have 1 or 2 tension springs?  What about the mysterious flat washer instead of the other tension spring #8A?  What do I do about the lack of a bearing retainer and where should the non handle side bearing go? tight to sideplate or not? I really wanted to avoid doing this another 4 times today, it's too nice out and it's my last day off   Thanks for all advice! 

[Bryan Young]

Aloha Broadway,

I believe Akfish meant to say spring washer instead of spring ashes.

Drag stack should be
     carbontex,
     keyed metal drag washer,
     carbontex,
     metal drag washer with ears,
     carbontex,
     keyed metal drag washer,
     carbontex,
     metal drage washer with ears,
     carbontex,
     keyed metal drag washer

Then a bevelled washer, the spacing sleeve, and the tension spring (usually a thin washer), then the star wheel.  If you have these washers mixed up, you will not get the kind of drag you are expecting. (I've learned this as well).  FYI, if you place a bevelled washer on the table, it will look cone shaped when looing from the side (either the center will be higher than the outside or vise versa.

Sideplate Bearing Retainer - Senators have bearing retainers.  This is a must to keep your spool in alignment and remove the freeplay (side-to-side) of the spool.  Per the schematics that I have, the part no. is 40-113HL.

I hope this helps.  Good luck.

[Irish Jigger]

Hi broadway, re your bearing retainer. Could it possibly have fallen out of the bearing assembly and become stuck on the spool spindle? You do need this part to retain the ball bearing in the bearing assembly (40-113HL) which should have an "O" ring (120-113HL) fitted to the outside diameter.

[alantani]

actually, you should be ok without the bearing retaining plate.  just don't let the bearing roll away.  you might even be better of without it!   if water gets past the retaining plate it will hold the water in. 

bill is right about penn changing washers around.  often i will just toss them.  they are prone to corrosion. 

to seat the bearings, just push down on them and they should easily seat.  then you're all set.  please let us know how this works out for you. 

oh, and welcome aboard!  alan

[broadway]

Wow!

    I want to thank you guys for the speedy/logical advice.  Just to keep you posted I left the first try 113hsp alone today, and said screw it and tried another.  I didn't want to put the first one back together because I was unsure if the bearing retainer is necessary.  I will leave it out of that one and give it a go.  I will tell you that my second try, though long and pain staking, was a success:)  It took about 3 hours of straight focus.  I took every part off the handle side and started from a empty sideplate.  I thought...Go Big or Go Home!  With the new knowledge i received today from you guys, I've grown even more confident cause I feel like you guys are like my personal 3G network   If I can help anyone out with a tackle question (I'm an inshore tackle whore) or a question about my rebuild feel free to ask away.  #2 came out Bad Azzzzz!  I'm ready for the strippers (Oops;) now.  By the way thanx for the part # on that bearing.  I'm gonna pick up a couple of them just in case it doesn't turn as good as the others' with the retainer.  I gotta wait until Monday to be able to put #1 back together-IT"S KILLIN' ME.  Thanks again crew!

[Irish Jigger]

Hi broadway,must agree with Alan,the bearing retainer is not necessary after all. I learn something new every day on this great Forum. You can save a few $ by buying the 113H ball bearings (0.125x0.3750x0.1562) separately and fitting  them to the bearing housings yourself (both ball bearings are the same size.) Good luck with the rebuilds.

[broadway]

      Jigger, thanks for your comments and reassurance.  The bearing measurements are definitely gonna come in handy.  Maybe someone can tell me the secret to putting the eccentric jack on without just getting lucky everytime.  Is there a secret?  I have put it on about ten times in the past two days, but  can't figure how I do it.  It just, all of a sudden just falls in to position. ...and yes I know the eccentric lever has to be in the freespool or retrieve position-I forget now cause the reels not in front of me.  anything other than that?