New production Penn 117L

Makule · September 30, 2013, 07:13:41 PM

All spools can break/warp, including the solid, one-piece cast bronze spools. I still have the broken one as a reminder.

The aluminum spools were started in order to reduce the overall weight of the reels. The solid bronze spool 14/0 was way heavier than the 3-piece spools, so people apparently started complaining about how heavy they were. Penn realized they needed to maintain the strength so they couldn't make the bronze spool thinner, so they switched to aluminum. They switched the spools to aluminum to many reels, not just in the Senator line.

Dynamo · September 30, 2013, 07:45:39 PM

Ah, very interesting indeed. Many use the bronze spools with insane drags and never have an issue in 20 years, yet others try the same thing with the aluminum spools and POW!! Could it be that because the aluminum spools are softer, they give in easier? Or are the spool breakages just coincedences? I can't believe you blew a solid brass spool, wow. How much pressure were you putting on it?

Makule · October 01, 2013, 01:22:18 AM

Quote from: Dynamo on September 30, 2013, 07:45:39 PM
Ah, very interesting indeed. Many use the bronze spools with insane drags and never have an issue in 20 years, yet others try the same thing with the aluminum spools and POW!! Could it be that because the aluminum spools are softer, they give in easier? Or are the spool breakages just coincedences? I can't believe you blew a solid brass spool, wow. How much pressure were you putting on it?

It wasn't so much the amount of pressure put on it, as it was the amount of line that was out and brought back under pressure. There was probably about 800 to 1000 yards out and cranking all of that in with what was probably a large shark on the other end (probably because after the spool broke, the reel couldn't be cranked any more and we never got to see what it was).

Metal, especially somewhat brittle ones like cast bronze, undergo fatigue after repeated stress. Keep doing it enough with enough pressure and it will fail. Just a matter of time. Do it frequently with lots of pressure and it will be sooner rather than later. In this case, the spool had been used for very heavy duty trolling before I got it, so it saw a good amount of stress. When I started using it, the line would typically start out about 300 to 400 yards. Sometimes even out to about 800 yards, but that was rare because cranking all of that back in was not fun.

The stretch in monofilament creates tremendous pressure under those conditions because being out that far and under tension, the line stretches. Then, when the fish is on, the line stretches even more, and all of that wound back on the spool under even more tension results in enormous forces. If the line is not immediately taken off the spool and allowed to relax before being wound back on, it will try to return to its original state and, in doing so, the pressure increases. With nowhere else to go, the line squeezes down and laterally. The more it squeezes down, the more it pushes out laterally since it really can't go down. In my case, I don't recall any noise when the spool broke, but it just couldn't be cranked. After I took all of the line off, I could see the crack towards the bottom of the spool. Went about 2/3s around.

Dynamo · October 01, 2013, 01:24:19 AM

Ah, thanks! So chrome spools might be a little stronger initially, but their strength wears down while the aluminum spools retain their strength?

Bunnlevel Sharker · October 01, 2013, 02:58:07 AM

Pretty much you should never break either one, it's why braid backing is good. If I ever get spooled, I point the rod to the fish, glove on, and lock down. It will turn or I will break the mono.

Shark Hunter · October 01, 2013, 03:59:48 AM

Albert,
I doubt anybody here does the Kind of Fishing you do. When you actually wear a Bronze spool out on a Big Senator. Now that's saying something! Despite the other opinions here on aluminum spools. What is your take on them? Particularly the 14/0.
I await your words of wisdom.

Bunnlevel Sharker · October 01, 2013, 04:17:47 AM

I wish I could fish like he does!

Shark Hunter · October 01, 2013, 04:36:41 AM

Your not kidding Brother!
If I ever hit the Lottery. I'm heading to Hawaii to Hook up with Albert! I bet He can hook up with some Sharks that would make me pee my Pants!

Here is my New Baby. Old School meets new! By the way Sal, I took my wife out to Dinner Last Night.

saltydog · October 01, 2013, 04:51:46 AM

Very nice.

Dynamo · October 01, 2013, 02:32:59 PM

Very nice!! Let us know what you think one versus the other.

Keta · October 01, 2013, 02:38:29 PM

Quote from: Makule on September 30, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
All spools can break/warp, including the solid, one-piece cast bronze spools.

I've seen a lot of the heavy bronze 349H spools warped by using mono when fishing for large halibut when I lived in Alaska.

Dynamo · October 01, 2013, 02:41:44 PM

Quote
Quote from: Shark Hunter on October 01, 2013, 04:36:41 AM
Your not kidding Brother!
If I ever hit the Lottery. I'm heading to Hawaii to Hook up with Albert! I bet He can hook up with some Sharks that would make me pee my Pants!
Here is my New Baby. Old School meets new! By the way Sal, I took my wife out to Dinner Last Night.

Sell all your Senators and you could buy a house in Hawaii, lol. Sweet photo of the two reels side by side.

Makule · October 01, 2013, 06:11:13 PM

QuoteSo chrome spools might be a little stronger initially, but their strength wears down while the aluminum spools retain their strength?

No, my statement was that metal is subject to fatigue after continuous, repeated, stress. Given the "right" amount, type, and duration of the stress, metals will break (get brittle and crack). As simple example is after opening a pull tab soda can, flexing the tab back and forth will cause the tab to break off. That's metal fatigue and that metal tab is made of aluminum. Bronze may be more resistant to fatigue if it has some nickel in its composition. I do not know what's in the spool bronze, but my guess is that the aluminum spools are not as strong as the cast bronze ones in terms of tensile strength, yield strength, and fatigue resistance. I have never used an aluminum spool 14/0, but just the nature of the metal leads me to believe that it's not as strong as the cast bronze spools.

QuotePretty much you should never break either one, it's why braid backing is good. If I ever get spooled, I point the rod to the fish, glove on, and lock down. It will turn or I will break the mono.

Yes, this is true. Backing helps a lot. Knowing when you're down to the "last straw" and gloving the line also helps prevent equipment (not counting the line and terminal tackle) failure. In my case, there was no backing as I did not imagine I'd hook up with a submarine, and believed that the spool was strong enough to withstand anything I could throw at it. As I later learned, everything has its limits.

The use of braid has changed everything. Without the stretch like mono, spool breakage will be reduced (defective spools don't count). Of course, anytime someone develops an "idiot proof" something, someone else develops a better idiot.

QuoteSell all your Senators and you could buy a house in Hawaii, lol.

If it were that easy, I'd have done that many times over already. We have just about the highest cost homes in the nation as all the raw materials need to be imported and the cost of labor is much higher too.

QuoteI bet He can hook up with some Sharks that would make me pee my Pants!

It's common enough that guys here call them, "sayonara" strikes, "freight trains", "submarines", etc. The largest one we brought in was a 12-14' tiger after 1 hr. 20 minutes on a 9/0 Senator. Larger ones just don't stop. It's not so much the length, but when the sharks get to a certain size, they start packing on the girth. It's like they build up diesel turbine engines in themselves.

These days, I mainly use a lever-drag, two-speed reel with well over 1000 yards of 200 lb braid. Anything that starts pulling and feels "uncontrollable" gets the full on brakes even if there is another 800 yards left in the reel. We do not hold the rods, but just leave them in the stands firmly planted in the rocks. Before the fish stops, everyone stands back in case something breaks explosively (which things do when under extreme pressure). If the fish finally stops, one guys goes in front and pulls in the line with gloved hands, while the other cranks in low gear.

As an aside, we don't like sharks getting hooked as we don't eat them. Since I'm a "meat fisherman" I'm only interested in stuff that's edible, otherwise it's just a waste of time, effort, and equipment. My wife goes nuts when she watches TV shows about different people doing the catch and release thing. It's like, "if you aren't going to eat them, leave them alone".

Bunnlevel Sharker · October 01, 2013, 07:33:38 PM

I wouldn't fish if I didn't keep a few each year. Most big sharks aren't good to eat, but little ones sure are!

Dynamo · October 01, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

If it were that easy, I'd have done that many times over already. We have just about the highest cost homes in the nation as all the raw materials need to be imported and the cost of labor is much higher too.

That was a simple joke. I was referring to the large amount of Senators he has......