penn 113h spool not spinning?

[broadway]

What could it be if the handle spins perfectly, the spool feels seated properly, I can hear/see the pinion and gearing moving perfectly, but the handle doesn't spin the spool? I got three of the four 113hsp's done, but this one is killin' me. Just a side note; The only thing I haven't removed on this reel is the non handle side bearing cap with the rubber o ring. I can't figure out how to remove it.  It just turn a very little bit each way, and are hard as can be to turn.  I have done a complete take down about 5 times tonight to try to fix the problem.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
Dom

[Bryan Young]

My right side bearing cap was very tight.  I though I also had a problem, but Alan took a plier and wrenched it to tighten and lossed the bearing cap.

Do you know if the pinion gear is engaging and disengaging from the spool?  If you take it apart again place the spool in the drive side and switch between engaging and disengaging the spool  If the spool does not spin, then that you help isolate the problem.  Other thing is tighting the drag.  I don't have any other ideas.

[BryanC]

I'm still very much a newbie at this, but I think it would help if you could take a couple pics of the inside of the right sideplate, showing the eccentric, eccentric jack, yoke & pinion, with the freespool lever in each position.  That might help someone on here to diagnose it if it's related to the gears engaging.

I assume you have the correct number of drag washers.  5 carbon fiber washers in the stack, with alternating slotted & keyed washers between them, right?

[slgriffiths]

Hi Dom - you're having fun with those reels, aren't you?

Bryan is right - it sounds like the pinion isn't engaging the spool shaft when you flick the lever - unless your drag stack is somehow slipping.  Is that working?

Anyway, assuming it's the pinion/shaft problem,  I've had a couple of spools do that.  When you break down the reel (again - I know!) check that the pinion will actually fit fully and easily onto the spool shaft, to the full depth of the slot.  It should slip in nicely and easily, requiring very little if any pressure.

I've got a new Penn 49 spool which is doing the same thing, and when I measured it the spool shaft diameter was 5.75mm, as opposed the the hole in the pinion it mates to, which is 5.5mm.  The pinion wouldn't even start to go onto the shaft. I've got to take it down to get it to fit. Penn manufacturing error.

And with regard to loosening the bearing cap with pliers - try to use soft jawed pliers!  The cap is brass, quite soft under the chrome, and vice-grips, or common pliers will do nasty, nasty things to your chrome and the knurling on the cap - and then comes the corrosion as the salt gets under the chrome.   At least use 4 or 5 layers of masking tape on it, thicker than the depth of the teeth on your pliers, and then go gently!!!  
After you've got it off, a toothbrush with Brasso or equivalent will take what is probably corrosion off the threads.  Leave a little Brasso on the cap threads, and run it into the sideplate again.  Then clean them both off thoroughly!  It should be easy to adjust the cap using your fingers now.  Don't forget to lubricate the cap with a little grease to keep the corrosion away in the future.

It's the little things that make life interesting!  It's satisfying when you get it sorted, though.
Simon

[broadway]

Okay, Guys, this is weird.  I opened the reel again, flicked the eccentric lever ten or so times.  The pinion seemed to function properly, everything seemed the same as the other three (113's) I just completed, so I closed her up AGAIN:( I don't know why but she works perfectly now.  Could I have been such a putz that when I tried to put it together, I had the eccentric lever in free spool?   would that make any sense.  If so, who's got a lil' egg on their face, ME?! Thanks for all your help fellas.  I couldn't have done it without you guys, Thanks to all involved, and yes, Simon I LOVE THIS STUFF:)  There's so much satisfaction when you complete something you never thought in your dreams you'd be able to do. Thanks
Dom

[alantani]

welcome to my world!  so many times i've taken stuff apart, then put it together again, multiple times, then suddenly have it come together and work for no apparent reason. 

[slgriffiths]

Hey Dom - did you get the bearing cap loose and cleaned off?  
Can you adjust the spool sideplay properly?
And congrats on getting it to work.
Simon

[Bryan Young]

Success 

Glad it's working again.  Now, go fishing. 

[broadway]

       The non side bearing cap has never been removed on any of my 113 hsp's because until the other day I wouldn't touch 'em.  I will if I need to, but I think I'm gonna leave well enough alone for the time being.  I have read about you guys adjusting your spools to get them right, but I'm still uncertain how to do it.  Adjusting that cap is a b-t-h   To remove I should use a soft-jawed plier? How do I know when to adjust? I would really like to thank you guys for all your help with my reels and giving me the confidence to do my own work. Curious, is there a spheros tutorial laying around? Are there any upgrades other than the carbontex washers for it? ...Can;t wait for those stripers come April 15! Keep 'em tight guys!

[Irish Jigger]

You really need to adjust the spool end float to fully complete your overhaul. It's very easy to do.  Try unscrewing the bearing housing from any one of your three reels. It's knurled and should unscrew easily using hand pressure only and has a normal right hand screw thread. It contains a ball bearing,"O" ring and ball bearing retainer which you may wish to replace at some later stage but forget about that for the present (don't worry they won't fall out of the bearing housing.) The spool will now have a lot of end float which is taken up by refitting the bearing housing until there is very little end float and the spool spins freely. All conventional Penn reels have their spool end float adjusted this way and it is important that the bearing housing is fully loosened prior to reassembling these reels to prevent over tightening of the spool. Practice on an old Penn if you have one handy.

[slgriffiths]

Hey, Dom,
This is the easiest thing to do - it's much easier than all the rebuilding and tearing down that you've done so far.  Don't be scared of it - and Irish is right - it's really necessary.  If it's too tight it can damage your reel.
So lets go step by step. 
When we talk about "sorting out the sideplay" or "adjusting the end-float" all we are talking about is stopping the spool slapping from left to right in the bearings because they are too loose, or from being so tight that it's jammed in the reel, putting outward pressure on the bearings and sideplates.  That's all.  It isn't magic, although we use all the jargon.  It only takes about 20 seconds!
So here's what you do.
Remember I asked you to clean out the threads on the bearing cap? That's so this can be easy - as well as stopping any corrosion on the threads.  So back that bearing cap on out - use pliers or something if you have to, but wrap a piece of towel or something onto it before you crunch those teeth onto the end of the cap.  Then, when it's out,  use a toothbrush if you need to to clean the crap out of the threads.  Brasso or something may help if you find a pile of corrosion in there, but don't use much - it ain't good in bearings! Remember to grease it before you put it back in the reel!
Anyway, you've now got it clean, and as Irish says, it should now be really easy to adjust with only finger pressure.  Nice and easy to screw in and out with your fingers only!. 
Put it back into the reel - but only three or four threads.  Leave it sticking out a bit.  This is how it should be when you reassemble your reel - you don't want to be tightening your sideplates onto the spool if it's too tight.  Back it right off.
Now, let's adjust the endplay, endfloat, or whatever we decide to call it.  It's the "side-to-side clearance" of the spool in the reel.
Grab the reel in both hands, left side in left hand, right side in right hand.  Put your thumbs onto the sides of the spool.
Press your left thumb onto the side of the spool, pulling the spool all the way to the left.  Then, let that thumb relax, and pull the spool to the right with your right thumb.  "Click." 
It shot from one side to the other, right?  Do it again - left to right, right to left.  Try and see how much free play there is on the spool.
Now what we've got to do is to adjust that play, by screwing the cap inwards, so that there is only a tiny little bit of play there.  So screw the cap in a bit, and try it again.  Keep doing that until there is only the smallest amount of left to right movement that you can feel. 
It isn't critical - so don't worry about it.  If you can feel just a little movement, that's fine.  If you can't feel any, then it's too tight, and there is pressure on the bearings and the sideplates - not good! 
A quarter of a millimetre is good - a whole millimetre won't hurt, but may be a little much - just turn the cap in a little more, and test it again - as I said, don't get too worried about it. Set it and forget it - until you strip the reel again!
So that's it.  You've done it - and it took you a whole 20 seconds!

Easy!

But necessary...

Simon.

[broadway]

Simon and Irish,
     I'm gonna try that tomorrow night when I get back from work, and I will post back then.  Thank you guys for taking your time out to be so thorough with your explanations.  I can't wait to pay it forward! Thanks
Dom

[broadway]

Simon,
       I followed your directions to a tee and it's a job well done.  GREAT instructions! Also, Alan was (as usual) right about the bearing retainer (non handle side) not making a difference whether it's there or not (at least in the assembly stage).  Thanks a bunch guys...I'll let ya know how they handle in about 3 weeks (striper season opens).  When I get my custom handles I'll post photos.  If I can help anyone with a 113h rebuild, parts, frames, recommendations, reviews, etc please let me know.  Thanks
Dom