RE: Poor performing Carbontex washers

Ellis Feibush · April 15, 2010, 07:11:44 AM

Am new to these forums and will try to be short. Just started tearing down some of my reels, most of which are Daiwa conventionals and baitcasters. Have installed new Carbontex and some extreme smoothie (when originally equipped on Daiwa baitcasters) drag washers. The stock thin drag washers in the Luna and Millionaire baitcasters were fine, just cleaned off, fingerprinted some shimano grease on them, daiwa grease on the main gear. The drags were very smooth. A different story on Daiwa conventional star drag reels. Replaced the washers (even though the old ones looked good) with Carbontex ones from the Smooth Drag company. Awful! Just awful. These washers are supposed to be the latest in high tech drag washers, but none of my installations were smooth at all. All were jerky and totally unsmooth. In some cases I lathered on Cals or Shimano Star drag grease and in others I fingerprinted the grease. It didn't matter. The drags were anything but smooth. They were just herky-jerkey for lack of a better expression. Perhaps I expected too much or maybe there's a break- in period where the reels need to be fished. In any event the drags were anything but smooth. I remember trying out Penn ht-100 washers on my Jigmasters when they first came out and I thought these were lousy too. Anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions. Only serious, constructive, non-sarcastic replies. Thank you.

borntofish · April 15, 2010, 07:23:02 AM

The only reason they could be jerky (from my experience) is that either you have made a mistake in re-assembling the reel or that there is a difference in thickness with the new washers thereby interfering with the normal operation of the reel.

alantani · April 15, 2010, 08:15:53 AM

ellis, the combination of carbon fiber and teflon grease gives you the best drag system. i'm not sure what's going on here. no one else seems to be having a problem but you. the only way i could figure it out would be for you to ship the reels to me. my address is 12362 ted court, saratoga, ca 95070. let me take a look at them. i don't know what is going on, but with the reels in hand i will most certainly be able to figure it out. here's the full post on shipping and service. alan

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=277.0

Ellis Feibush · April 16, 2010, 03:42:35 AM

borntofish, thank you for your response and interest in the post. I believe, as I explained to Alan, that my after service drag performance tests might be at fault here. It surely is very hard to artificially emulate the real world drag pull from a fighting fish and that I think is where my problem was. The carbontex-teflon grease combination has become the fishing reel drag standard today. You'd think since Penn started marketing HT-100 drag washers years ago, someone might have invented something better. You just know there's better drag whasher material out there, but the problem isn't big enough for Daiwa or Penn to solve. In my lifetime I must have tried everything in my drag systems and sometimes I got it right but that soon became wrong in use. Thanks again and tight lines.

Phinaddict · April 16, 2010, 06:01:03 AM

Ellis said, "It surely is very hard to artificially emulate the real world drag pull from a fighting fish".

Heck, just tie your line to your dogs collar and throw a ball. Or your kids/grandkids pants and tell him to run.
Works pretty good.....

Ellis, I think it is pretty well proven that greased drags are the state of the art and all things considered, the best drag system available. Many end reel manufacturers have gone to this combination.

What did you mean when you said, " sometimes you got it right but that soon became wrong in use".... I don't understand what you meant.

alantani · April 16, 2010, 08:08:46 AM

please send me the reels. greased carbontex and greased ht-100's have performed flawlessly in my experience, and my experience is considerable. if you do in fact have a sticky set of drags, you will be the first, ever. i know nothing of your abilities or methods. i will know for sure when i open up those reels that you have service. send them to me and you will have your answer within a week.

you wanted a serious response. trust me, this response is very serious...........

kamuwela · April 17, 2010, 02:28:26 AM

Quote from: alantani on April 16, 2010, 08:08:46 AM
please send me the reels. greased carbontex and greased ht-100's have performed flawlessly in my experience, and my experience is considerable. if you do in fact have a sticky set of drags, you will be the first, ever. i know nothing of your abilities or methods. i will know for sure when i open up those reels that you have service. send them to me and you will have your answer within a week.

you wanted a serious response. trust me, this response is very serious...........

i cant wait for the response let us know alan what you find

Phinaddict · April 17, 2010, 05:34:12 AM

Hi Ellis,
It sounds like you have good luck with Extreme Smoothies and are satisfied with them. Why not put them in the reels that have been giving you problems?

Ellis Feibush · April 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM

Gentlemen, Thank you one and all for your responses. I appreciate your interest. I believe I have found the culprit which I alluded to in my other post; that my method of testing serviced reels was entirely inaccurate. Once I modified that, the drags on all fifteen or so reels became satisfactory.Phinaddict thank you expecially for your first serious, constructive and non-sarcastic response. I will most certainly follow your suggestions. The grandchildren and their parents will just love that! Your suggestion to replace drag washers in my other reels with Extgreme Smoothies was indeed a good one which I had thought about before, but when I talked to Dawn at Smooth Drag, extreme Smoothies are made for only a limited variety of reels. I have alrealdy ordered them from her company.

alantani · April 17, 2010, 03:59:58 PM

glad you worked it out. you would have been the first in 10 years that would have had a less than satisfactory outcome from greased carbon fiber.

surfcaster · April 17, 2010, 04:55:42 PM

Have fished saltwater for 30 years, I have done my own repairs for 10, I have always been schooled not to grease Ht-100's
leave them dry, But I used Cal's this season & have been nothing but impressed with the results.Very smooth drags
& hold up well for bottom fishing. Just my 2cents.
Semper fi, Rich

Phinaddict · April 18, 2010, 02:49:51 AM

Hey Ellis,
Just a thought, ( and Alan might know for sure), but, you might try calling Dawn at Smoooth Drag and asking her if you can buy Extreme Sooothie drag material and cut your own washers to size.

Ellis Feibush · April 19, 2010, 02:01:59 AM

Surfcaster, thank you for your suggestion re: using Cals lightly on the HT-100 washers. Although I have torn down my 500 and 505 Jigmasters many times at sea (Cod and Haddock Jigging on Cape Ann was very tough on pinion gears; used to carry my own stock of parts on board and fix these reels between stops) I don't think I have fingerprinted Cals grease on the HT-100 washers. Used them mostly dry. Jigmasters really need something to smooth out their drag systems. Phinaddict, thank you also for your suggestion to cut my own washers from extreme smoothies. I do have a large set of circular punches I have used for this pourpose in the past. The thinness of the material might pose a problem, but worth trying. Strangely enough, I have found the drag systems in many of the Daiwas to be very smooth by using the stock Daiwa, thin washers with light fingerprinted Shimano grease on them. Though thin and a bit brittle with age, these new sintered metalic washers are not too bad. They are smooth and progressive much like the disc pad materials used in current motorcycle brakes. I wanted to point out that I think we should all be open to trying out new and creative approaches toward improving the functionality of our fishing reels.
Semper fi, Ellis