Penn Senator 12/0- Different Chromed Bronze Spool Types

[Tightlines667]

Through the course of refurbishing 12/0s I've noticed that there seems to be 4 different spool types out there.   1)The newer style aluminum spools
2)The much older 3 piece chromed-bronze spools
3)2 different versions of the 1 piece chromed-bronze spool (see attached photos)

Just out of curiosity...
I'm wondering if anyone has noticed or is aware of any additional spool types/styles in these reels?
Anyone knows roughly what time periods each of the two chrome spool types depicted in the photos were produced?

It certainly appears that..not all senator chromed-bronze spools were created equal... One has much greater line capacity and is lighter weight, while the other is much heavier and has a wider lip which might aid a bit in sealing the spool /side plate gap better? 

Just something I've noticed of interest.

[Tightlines667]

I've also noticed there are 2 different types of stock main gears (chromed?&str8bronze).  The silver colored gears are typical with the high capacity chromed bronze spools, but are strangely absent from the heavy chromed bronze spools. 

Also, most of the 14/0s w/solid 1-piece chromed-bronze spools seem to have matching chromed bridge, gear sleve, and main gear.  The one I just serviced however deviated from this pattern (heavy chromed-bronze spool) and all Bronze stock internals (bridge, sleeve, and main gear). 

[Shark Hunter]

I think it is hard to tell about the parts and the era they came from. I have four 14/0's and the only thing they had in common was the one piece chrome bronze spool. Some have bronze gears, some have steel. One has a chrome bridge with a bronze gear. One has a brass bridge with a steel gear. The other two are aluminum spool.
That 12/0 spool with the lip on it has intrigued me. I don't have one yet. Its like the aluminum design, only chromed brass.
When you said chromed main gear, I think these are steel. They need more grease to keep them from corroding, but I think they are tougher than the Bronze ones.

[Tightlines667]

Daron,
I agree with you. 
I meant Stainless Steel main gear, and although the SS main and pinion gear are not as 'smooth' as the SS pinion/bronze main I would expect the SS set to be stronger, and more durable overall.

A few other observations regarding longevity/strength of senator internals include:

Many of the older bronze main gears I have pulled from poorly maintained and/or heavily abused reels show excessive pitting inside the main gear (around base (esp. near the bushing), and around the outside perimeter (esp. where the SS washers/drag washers/main gear marry).

Also, there are often laterial nicks and marks in the 2 lateral groves (where the SS eared washers' tabs contact the gear.  Although I have observed pitting on the inside sides and bases of SS main gears, the chanels are rarely damaged. 

Tooth wear, though not typically excessive, also appears greater on bronze main gears.  I'm not sure if the commonly encountered pitting on the inside of the main gears is a result of moisture retention, electrolysis from dissimilar metals in contact, or heat/friction induced?  Seems like the carbon fiber drag washers often leave some residue on the main gear's sides and over time this (in combination with moisture retention?, which it would stand to reason would tend to typically accumulate in the gaps which may develop between the 3 material types)  is where the pitting/corrosion starts.

I have to believe utilizing greased drag washers will help to reduce the effects of corrosion here though. It's strange that many of the SS gear sets and chromed bridge combination reels still have bronze gear sleeves, though I have observed a reel with all 3 parts SS. 

As far as tye different bronze spool types...seems to me like the lighter, higher capacity spools are much more common and were likely produced for the longest period, probably first with a conpliment of all bronze parts, and later with SS mains, then later with SS main, chromed bridge and SS sleeves.  The only heavy, lower capacity bronze spools I have seen in these reels appear have been produced later, and may have been precursures to the aluminum spools?(since they spear to be of the sane design). As I mentioned before..it seens strange to me that the (newer?) heaviest, strongest spools would be married to softer bronze parts (bridge, sleeve, main). 

Please note the above are merely speculations based on limited observation of what I have been finding in reels I've serviced or refurbished.  I know deducing what was manufactured and assembled as 'stock' in these reels can be problematic, since reels (esp. older reels) are/have been serviced and may have had parts modified from stock.  Personally I like the combination of high capacity chromed bronze spool, chromed bridge, SS gear sleeve, and SS main the best in terms of strength, durability, and longevity.  Although these reels are definitely heavier.

I've always liked Penn Senators.  They seem to be a good balance of:
-low cost
-simplicity
-longevity/durability
-lightweight (much better with the alum spool)
-and performance

Though they may not be as quite as 'smooth', 'tight', or 'beefy' as some of the other reel models out there.  They get the job done at half the cost.

Just thought I'd share a few of my thoughts

[RowdyW]

Hi, I don't think the main gears are S/S. I believe they are heat treated steel.   Rudy

[Shark Hunter]

You are correct Rudy. Just steel. Not Stainless on the mains.

[Tightlines667]

Are the pinions hardened as well then?, or stainless?

[Alto Mare]

Chromed bridge comes with an additional bracket, I believe it's there to help keeping the main gear lined up with the pinion under stress.
You will often get away with shims on brass bridges, but on chromed ones you will definitely need them.

[Ron Jones]

The pinions are stainless, I couldn't imagine that the stainless isn't hardened.
Ron

[Tightlines667]

I was wondering why I the chromed bridge isn't just 'plug-n-play' in all the 14/0 models.  The reels designed for chromed bridges seem to align the main just slightly closer to the pinion...a little tighter tolerance, if memory serves me correctly.  I tried to order a chromed bridge directly from penn once w/o success, it seems since most models came with bronze, that's what's avail from them (and Scott's too).  The bronze bridge seems to fit perfectly fine in both models (w/steel or bronze mains) w/o any adjustment required.  Maybe the tolerances are slightly looser though.  So as I recall, I havn't had any trouble replacing a chromed bridge w/a bronze, but the other way around requires some adjustment.

John

[UKChris]

I believe Penn referred to the steel main gears as 'moly coated' and the pinion as stainless in the older catalogues. More recent catalogues talk of bronze main gears in the Senator range. I have two 12/0 - one of each main gear type - but I have never seen a 12/0 with a lipped chromed bronze spool before. Very interesting.

Chris