How much drag at "freespool"

dogtagger · December 08, 2013, 05:34:08 PM

Good day gents, I'm wondering how much drag I can safely give my 80 internationals with the reel in "free spool" without causing damage to the reel? The idea is to get max drag, since I'm not worried about free spool. These reels are used for trolling and bait fishing, but not fly lining. My 80s can get around 50lbs of drag at full, but the preset is cranked down enough to give me a couple of pounds of drag when at free. By the way, the reels are spooled with 130 braid to mono. I figure that I get around 40lbs at strike. Thoughts?

Keta · December 08, 2013, 05:43:07 PM

I'd be more concerned with the high end and not worry about "freespool"..

SoCalAngler · December 09, 2013, 07:30:07 AM

Which of the 80's are you talking about?
80T Strike 20-28lbs Full 35-40lbs
80VSW Strike 40lbs Full 51lbs

If you have a older International and you want more drag than you have now you will need to see a reel tunner like Cal's 2-Speed.

Robert Janssen · December 09, 2013, 10:42:53 AM

Spot on. ^

Or maybe you should consider simply replacing the belleville washers with a slightly heavier type, for a negligible sum.

Concerns with bottoming out the existant belleville washers and applying too much force without resiliency may arise, if the preset is so cranked down as to provide drag already in the freespool notch.

Just a thought.

.

Dominick · December 10, 2013, 03:21:55 AM

Dogtagger: I know what you mean. I usually set the drag so that I don't have to strip line after the line is in the water with the boat running at trolling speed. If the line is not stripping off on its own, the drag at (supposedly) free spool is too tight. Does that make sense? Dominick

Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B · December 10, 2013, 01:45:03 PM

i set my drag at full to 40% of stated line lb and hopefully i have enough line so when it's a catch of a lifetime and decides to run like forever it will not spool me. having said that usually at free spool my drag is 0 as in nil and then i slightly adjust the lever till my desired drag is attained, usually just enough resistance to hook the fish. but when trolling, which i haven't done yet, i think you have to just experiment with diff settings while on the boat until it stops pulling line while on troll. just my 2 cents...

dogtagger · December 11, 2013, 02:16:22 AM

Robert Jenssen wrote: "Or maybe you should consider simply replacing the belleville washers with a slightly heavier type, for a negligible sum.

Concerns with bottoming out the existant belleville washers and applying too much force without resiliency may arise, if the preset is so cranked down as to provide drag already in the freespool notch."

Robert, that's my concern. I'm trying to get the maximum amount of drag out of the reels, but don't want to wreck anything. I expect that 50 lbs at full is plenty, since I'm fishing with 130 line. The rods will be fished out of swivel rod holders, and max drag only applied near the end of the fight. The drags are set at strike while trolling, which is about 40 lbs. My only issue with changing the bellevilles is loosing the range of the drag. Right now they have a nice smooth drag curve from free to full. By the way, these are the older Penn II 80S reels.

Bunnlevel Sharker · December 11, 2013, 02:16:58 AM

The second gen international 80s will hit 55lbs at full

Robert Janssen · December 11, 2013, 07:15:09 AM

Quote...My only issue with changing the bellevilles is loosing the range of the drag. Right now they have a nice smooth drag curve from free to full.

No worries, dogtagger. The smooth drag curve will remain, if you retain the standard configuration of belleville spring washers as was in the reel originally. ()()

Changing them to a heavier set of bellevilles will only increase tension and thusly produce more drag.

(what are they now, like 10 x 22 x 1 mm? Try some just a smidgeon thicker, like 10 x 22 x 1.2 mm*. That is a 20% increase.)

Come to think of it, there used to be a guy on ebay who sold these as a so-called heavy drag kit for Internationals. Maybe he is still there; idunno.

*or whatever they are. Maybe ½" x 26 x 1 or something, idunno. See for yourself.

.

Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B · December 11, 2013, 10:09:24 AM

Quote from: dogtagger on December 11, 2013, 02:16:22 AM

Robert, that's my concern. I'm trying to get the maximum amount of drag out of the reels, but don't want to wreck anything.are the

as we say only one way to find out. sometimes unfortunate things happen when we as "tinkerers" do things or experiment and this is part of it. hopefully whatever breaks is replaceable, good luck and tight lines!

SoCalAngler · December 11, 2013, 07:00:05 PM

It is my thought that when a reel starts to get side load your starting to damage the pinion bearing. Adding heavier spring washers will increase the ramp up of the drag but without other mods the side load issue should be the same when you reach the highest end of the drag range. I dont think adding belville washers alone will stop the side load to the pinion when you get to the drag pressure now where the side load starts. Would it not still start at the same max drag pressure?

Tightlines667 · December 11, 2013, 08:20:51 PM

If tolerances are such where space permits shimming of the pinion and drive gears. It seems to me that is reasonable to expect that placing a single ultra thin shim between the pinion/spool shaft and right side plate bearing will transfer these forces to the outer (rather then inner) bearing race when under heavier loads? A corresponding shim would likely be needed under the main drive gear in order to preserve optimal gear alignment. In these older international reels, the tolerances allow for some shimming. Belleville washer thickness and configuration can be modified as well, provided the overall spacing (spool positioning, spool-pinion spacing, pinion to right side plate spacing, spool to drive plate, and left side plate spacing) can be maintained within acceptable limits. Alan et. al have provided some direction in these matters in other tutorials/threads on this forem. However, I typically try to avoid making and significant modifications to these specs in the internationals I service. It is my understanding that Cal Sheets offers true 'Blue Printing' service for these reels, which may involve shimming-spacing adjustments, cam ramp modifications, belleville type/size/orientation, and/or milling of drag-related components in order to modify stock drag curve and overall effective range modifications to desired. Though it seems to me that Modifications of these systems can lead to changes in working loads which may negatively affect longevity/wear due to changes in load distribution. As I said, I try to encourage my customers to stick with the stock configurations that the reels were designed for. One can note that there are many significant design differences in these class of reels that produce higher effective max drags, or have steeper drag curves (I.e. the VSX series). You may also note that there are often a new set of typical reel failures/problems observed in reel models with higher effective max drags, steeper drag curves, and tighter tollerances.

I would proceed with caution.

Robert Janssen · December 11, 2013, 08:28:57 PM

Quote from: SoCalAngler on December 11, 2013, 07:00:05 PM
It is my thought that when a reel starts to get side load your starting to damage the pinion bearing. Adding heavier spring washers will increase the ramp up of the drag but without other mods the side load issue should be the same when you reach the highest end of the drag range. I dont think adding belville washers alone will stop the side load to the pinion when you get to the drag pressure now where the side load starts. Would it not still start at the same max drag pressure?

umm, yeah- it would, but the 80S distributes this side load equally among four bearings of a sturdier type than the single problematic pinion bearing which we usually discuss here. Further, nobody has mentioned side loading or turning resistance until now, except you- the OP has only asked about increasing drag.

Quote... when a reel starts to get side load your starting to damage the pinion bearing..

These reels were BORN with side load. That is how they work.

Tightlines666, yes, perhaps. But seriously, exchanging the belleville washers is not a big deal.

.

dogtagger · December 12, 2013, 02:19:55 AM

I have not noticed any significant resistance in the reels when the drag is increased to their max range. This is all great stuff, I'm looking forward to getting into these reels and giving them the Tani treatment.

SoCalAngler · December 12, 2013, 06:05:07 AM

Quote from: dogtagger on December 08, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
Good day gents, I'm wondering how much drag I can safely give my 80 internationals with the reel in "free spool" without causing damage to the reel? The idea is to get max drag, since I'm not worried about free spool. These reels are used for trolling and bait fishing, but not fly lining. My 80s can get around 50lbs of drag at full, but the preset is cranked down enough to give me a couple of pounds of drag when at free. By the way, the reels are spooled with 130 braid to mono. I figure that I get around 40lbs at strike. Thoughts?

umm, yeah- it would, but the 80S distributes this side load equally among four bearings of a sturdier type than the single problematic pinion bearing which we usually discuss here. Further, nobody has mentioned side loading or turning resistance until now, except you- the OP has only asked about increasing drag.

Umm, it sounds like he is discribing side load of the bearings when he has the reel set at 50lbs at full and gets a couple of pounds of drag when set at freespool.