G'day All,
Just thought I'd share some details about a repair to a Banax Kaigen 1000, I have done over the past few weeks, seeing as there is little information to be found on the 'net regarding faults to the drive system for the DC motor that powers the reel. This is by no means a tutorial, just a few "what I found and learnt" during the experience of doing this repair.
The problem with the reel was as soon as the reel was hooked up to the battery supply, the motor would run continuously, with no control from the LCD keypad. Moving the speed control lever would show response on the speed gauge on the right side of the display and the motor had limited speed control range. If the control unit was reset as per instructions, and clutched in to turn, the line counter would work. The LCD unit would also give a feedback beep to all presses of the control buttons. So it seemed as though the control keys and LCD display were working OK. At this point it was apparent there was a fault with the motor drive circuitry.
The motor drive casing is housed under a shroud on the front of the reel. To get to it, the reel has to be dismantled like so........
First up loosen the star drag right off. Then remove the manual crank handle securing nut locking plate, and the nut
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_32_09_214441263.png)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_17_57_214141558.jpeg)
Unscrew the star drag, there is a little spacer plate that comes with it
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_24_17_214262328.jpeg)
Remove the star drag clicker plate
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_23_38_21424663.jpeg)
Remove thrust collar for star drag
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_23_46_2142520.jpeg)
Remove the keyed thrust collar housing
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_18_23_21415176.jpeg)
Remove the four outside side plate securing screws. Note from the right side plate, they are machine threads. The left side cover screws are self tappers.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_22_09_21422419.jpeg)
Remove the two clutch bridge screws
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_28_14_214361147.jpeg)
The right side plate can now be lifted off over the handle drive shaft. Be careful of the wires going to the speed control Potentiometer (Pot) or variable resistor. In fact care must be taken with all covers when removing in case the wires are damaged or broken by accident.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_16_18_21411950.jpeg)
Also be careful of the bridge springs, ala working on the old Penn Senators. The anti-reverse dog is under the main manual drive gear
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_25_07_21428253.jpeg)
Lift out bridge springs, bridge and the pinion gear the meshes with the end of the planetary gears driven from the DC motor.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_26_59_21433305.jpeg)
Remove the C clip that secures the level wind drive gear
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_13_13_2140721.jpeg)
Remove the gear, you can now access both securing screws on the right hand side for the motor drive casing (one is adjacent to thumb).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_16_50_214121225.jpeg)
Now to remove the left side plate, remove securing screws for the plate, most are accessed from the spool side of the frame
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_27_47_214341405.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_31_51_214431025.jpeg)
Note self tappers screws from this side
There is only one screw that is removed from the "outside" of the left side plate
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_19_46_214192305.jpeg)
Remove the left side cover. Please note sealing paste on the drive housing. This pic was taken after the repair to the Drive PCB, and thus the white sealer has been added by myself, to seal the casing.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_29_28_214381166.jpeg)
The silver shroud should now click out and up, be sure to loosen the screws at each end beforehand. The black plastic cover for the drive casing should now slide straight out
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_24_35_21427234.jpeg)
This is the drive housing. It also doubles as a heat sink for the components mounted on the PCB inside. Remove the four housing mount screws, 2 from each end.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_26_30_214321454.jpeg)
Lift out the housing off the frame. Be careful of the wiring loom.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_18_41_214171465.jpeg)
Unfortunately I did not take enough pix at this point to show disassembly of the drive casing. Once you are committed to opening the drive housing, you have to be very careful of the wiring loom where it passes through the side of the casing, so as not to break the wires connected to the PCB. Also, once the back plate is removed and the seal broken, all sealing areas and groove for the housing O-ring will have to be meticulously cleaned of all the old sealing compound, a tricky and tedious process. This is the back cover of the housing removed, along with the PCB. Note the heat conducting pads
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_12_17_21406547.png)
This is the drive PCB, after replacement of the faulty component, and the critical heat carrying components have had heat conducting paste re-applied.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_21_30_214211844.png)
Now to what had failed. From the previous pic there are five critical components on this PCB that are heat sinked to the casing sides. The two that are of particular interest are the ones with the holes in their heat sinking plates (2nd and 3rd from left). These are MOSFET's. Similar to a transistor, but the semiconductor gate is voltage controlled. For those interested, here is a good article on them.
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/MOSFET/MOSFET.html
When the paste was cleaned off the components, this is what was found in the component 2nd from left on the PCB (after removal from the PCB)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/10783_16_10_17_2_44_34_220783.png)
Notice how the heat sink is discoloured (as compared to the replacement component on the right). This is a classic failure of a MOSFET that has been incorrectly heat sinked. We figured the way the original component had been mounted onto the PCB, it was folded over too low so that the heat sink on the MOSFET component was not in full contact with the heat sink pad attached to the side of the casing, thus not cooling the component enough to prevent prolonged heat stress. I am very indebted to my father in law, who is an electronics wiz, with guiding me through this fault find. As indicated in the above MOSFET article, they commonly fail to short circuit, hence the reason why the reel's drive motor was always running while connected to a power source. One of the two MOSFET's was shorted, allowing power to the motor at all times. The replacement component was ordered from a local electronics supplier (part sourced from England, could have gone cheaper from China, but did not wish to compromise reliability) for $15 AUD. New component soldered to PCB, before reassembling the drive casing
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_19_01_214181545.png)
The casing was re-sealed with an elastomer based marine sealant. Careful attention was made to sealing the loom to casing.
The reel was assembled in reverse from above.
I had to make a shim of 0.5mm thickness to place under the drag bellevilles due to the manual drive handle jamming up when the drag was increased. Suspect that the spring washers had lost a bit of their springiness.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_22_24_214231904.jpeg)
The preload washers are arranged as thus (from the gear), ><>.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_16_02_214101523.jpeg)
Other than that, it was pretty much standard cleaning and greasing of all mechanical components. The drag stack was greased with Cal's, and metal plates honed. It came up very smooth.
I also made a new clutch engage/dis-engage lever out of stainless as the original plastic one had snapped off.
Another useful instructional video during this repair was this clip below, as the LCD display on this particular reel is all in Japanese. There are other versions that are in English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_e1-CHe7Ns
Edit- User Manual and Parts diagram (English) https://www.dropbox.com/s/17j6oeaxii65tfp/Banax%20Kaigen%201000%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf?dl=0
Hope this is of help to someone out there.
All I can say is Wow!
You have a lot of Patience my Man! Good Job! ;)
Great job Rothmar2, I'm very impressed.
Thanks for taking the time. My guess is the Daiwa Tanacom Bulls are very similar.
Great job Rothmar2, looks like you've done it a few times before ;D.
great work! i know this is mostly about the electronics, but were you able to switch out the drag washers?
No, I didn't. All I did was thoroughly clean the washers (not sure what they consisted of, didn't appear to be pure carbon fibre, maybe a mix? The washers were quite open weave though.) and greased. The metal washers were not entirely flat, probably due to their pressed manufacture. I honed them on a lapping plate, starting with a very coarse lapping paste, through to a fine. I then finished them with Autosol polish. I apologize for not getting more pics of the drag system laid out. Will endevour to find the parts manual PDF and add it to my original post for completeness.
I have never seen such a reel. I guess the motor is just for spooling and just reeling your bait in. What kind of drag can it Handle? How much do these cost?
Whoa. The school of higher learning...
Most electric reels that I have seen were Diawa. I saw all of them on deep water trips 300' & deeper up North Cod fishing, one even had a Jigging feature where it would motor up so far & free spool down. With the back pack battery they can cost up to & maybe beyond $1500.
Wow!
I Guess I'll keep relying on Human power. I thought maybe a couple hundred.
I could get an Everol 18 for that kind of Cash! :o
Here's one for $450. The same one that Rothmar fixed here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171167892392
The Daiwa Tanacom Bull 1000 is about $700.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Daiwa-TANACOM-BULL-TB-1000-Power-Assist-Reel-/251066096240
They are $999 at Cabela's.
This is just what I need! I can see myself with the fighting Harness and Belt and a 12 volt Battery strapped to my back for counterweight! ;D
Certainly not a standard repair. Kinda scary!! :o Well done.
id want a life time warranty on one of these.
as alan asked about the drag,
does it work well?
if it wasnt extra smooth,would it put more pressure on the electrics(motor)
if you locked up the drag and hooked a large shark would it burn out.
i have never seen an electric reel.
good stuff rothmar2 to have a crack at one of these
The small deep charge battery packs are expensive with all the accessories. On a multi day trip you might need an extra battery or a battery charger.
Just what we need - more stuff to carry on the boat.
Quote from: wallacewt on November 29, 2013, 11:34:25 PM
id want a life time warranty on one of these.
as alan asked about the drag,
does it work well?
if it wasnt extra smooth,would it put more pressure on the electrics(motor)
if you locked up the drag and hooked a large shark would it burn out.
i have never seen an electric reel.
good stuff rothmar2 to have a crack at one of these
The drag works much better now since the metal washers were honed, very smooth. It was a little jerky beforehand. As for actual drag spec's, will try and get some numbers next time I see the reel. At the moment it is quite capable of lifting 2.5kg of sinker, plus a few fish in the 3-7kg range from 450m depth without too much slippage of the drag. It really only slips if you have a bit of swell on, and if the boat rises suddenly to pass over one. The reel will pull in at amost 150m/min with just the weight on at high speed. To wind in manually is pretty hard work after a couple of deep drops, anything over 300m becomes a slog. The motor drive definately makes things much easier, and saves a heap of time.
Here is a little sample, most of these fish were caught on the above reel 2 days after handing it back to the owner.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_29_52_21439142.jpeg)
The majority of these were caught in 350-450m water depth. Quite often they were coming up 3-4 fish at a time, and average weight of the fish pictured is 3-4kg each. A couple of weeks ago, I was on a trip where we were fishing 500m+. Apart from a "fish winch" add on (coupled to a 6/0 Penn Senator), the other deep drop rig was a Shimano Tyrnos. The fish winch was taking about 6-8 mins to come up from that depth, manually winding the Tyrnos was taking 20+mins, depending on who was winding. Its very deflating winding up from that depth and coming up empty handed!!
Nice Rothmar!
Keep it up and I will have to have one these Kaigen's! ;)
thanks for the great post! you wrench should be arriving soon!!!!! ;D
Got another of these handed to me a few days ago, this one with a bad level wind, the line guide would not move from the left end of the worm shaft.
The worm chaser can be removed from reel without a full tear down.
The damaged one is on the left....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_31_08_214421378.jpeg)
Fortunately the owner had been able to source spare parts from Malaysia. He had a new worm shaft, chaser and the line guide. Total for all parts, about $25 AUD, not too bad.
To get to the worm shaft all the covers have to come off (see earlier post) to gain access to the E clips that hold the shaft in place. There is one at each end.
When I extracted the shaft, I also found this....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_34_41_214492337.jpeg)
This had happened to both ends of the shaft. I'm guessing that somehow the braid line had got wrapped around the worm shaft and damaged the parts, (owner had purchased off EBay and used twice before failure).
There was a fair bit of end play on the shaft, so I shimmed under the right end E clip with a 0.2mm washer when fitting the new shaft.....(apologies for poor photo)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_20_32_214201568.jpeg)
Alan had asked about the drag stack, here it is....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_15_25_21409113.jpeg)
Washers appear to be carbon fibre, but not entirely sure. They are 0.4mm thick.
Cleaned and greased with Cal's. Gave the metals a quick hit with some polish on glass, to find they are not very flat. Would like to get the reel back at some stage to hone them properly. Drag slips OK, but is a little lumpy.
Along with the parts changed, complete tear down and grease all surfaces, pack bearings (only 2 on these reels), but left all electrical components alone.
Aside from the drag, the reel functioned very well after servicing.
The Banax I repaired that had the blown MOSFET, caught this today
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_27_54_214351770.jpeg)
Hooked in 570m of water, on a squid bait, and multi dropper rig. The fish charged straight to the surface shook its head before diving back down to 300m, where it got tail wrapped by the other hooks and then died. It then took over an hour of patience and careful planing up using the swell and hand cranking, to be able to secure it. Final weight was 80kg. The motor drive was only used for a short time after the initial hook-up. The rest was all done cranking by hand.
While not targeted, or a legitimate gamefish capture, it's still a fish of a lifetime, and highlights the capabilities of these reels if properly serviced and looked after. Note this'll this reel, I had honed the metal washers flat, and the drag was very smooth, unlike the one I recently changed the level-wind on. That one requires attention still.
nice catch! i noticed that the eared washers have 4. they should do this on the larger senators IMO... :)
HI there,
I recently damaged my level winder and it now occasionally spools line on one side (during a retrieve).
I am wondering whether there is a pictorial guide (similar to the one Rothmar did in this post) showing how to take the Kaigen 1000 apart and replacing the broken parts (ie assuming I have managed to purchase the spares).
It would help me greatly. Thank you.
Quote from: Rothmar2 on April 13, 2014, 10:01:13 AM
The Banax I repaired that had the blown MOSFET, caught this today
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsd92d2c93.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsd92d2c93.jpg.html)
Hooked in 570m of water, on a squid bait, and multi dropper rig. The fish charged straight to the surface shook its head before diving back down to 300m, where it got tail wrapped by the other hooks and then died. It then took over an hour of patience and careful planing up using the swell and hand cranking, to be able to secure it. Final weight was 80kg. The motor drive was only used for a short time after the initial hook-up. The rest was all done cranking by hand.
While not targeted, or a legitimate gamefish capture, it's still a fish of a lifetime, and highlights the capabilities of these reels if properly serviced and looked after. Note this'll this reel, I had honed the metal washers flat, and the drag was very smooth, unlike the one I recently changed the level-wind on. That one requires attention still.
Wow. Looks like the greased CF drags are getting it done again.
This is the type of fish that can truly test the gear. It might be prudent to do a quick post-battle tear down to see how the antireverse system, and drive train held up under stress. Did you notice if the star became hot during the fight? or if there was any noticeable 'surginess' with the drags, or any noticeable grinding, roughness, or binding when cranking?
I guess there is no real need to tear it down, it appears to have gotten the job done. I recommended this reel to a friends dad for deep drop fishing for Tilefish, but wouldn'T envision this reel being ideal for big game fish like that Sword. It must have been a struggle pulling that dead weight up from the deep. I imagine some handlining was involving.
John
These two posts today are quite timely.....
The reel that pulled the sword up is actually on my desk at the moment..........with a faulty level wind.
This is the second time this reel has had that problem, and I have seen two others that have exactly the same problem.
What it boils down to is the stock plastic level wind guide (the bit that goes back and forth) is simply not up to the task. It is too thin a section where the the main guide shroud (which contains the worm) passes through the guide. These guides split through the thin section far too easily. IMO, they are no-where near strong enough to deal with the side loads exerted on them by the mainline under high tension.
For the reel currently on my desk, I have fabricated a stainless replacement guide, and it's about 80% complete. I was actually going to update this post when I get home in about 3 weeks time.
John, the sword was hand cranked most of the way, and took about an hour and a half of very careful work under a pretty heavy drag to plane it up.
I'm sorry to say kawa0, but you will need at least a new guide, pawl and worm parts.
If you can wait, I will post a detailed "how to" when I get home. And while I'm at it, we'll have a look at the drags and other internals and see how it's holding up.
The level wind is a MAJOR weakness in this reel. So much so, I cannot recommend using this reel beyond 150-200m water depth.
If you need parts, get in touch with me.
I've got US stock. I'd be interested in seeing your revised design.
Take a look at the tanacom levelwind, it's not any better. The key is never pulling the line through the levelwind, it is almost impossible to get it re sychronized. This will generate very high sideloads.
I have a presentation on my website showing far more detail on the components.
http://www.frigatesales.com/support-documents.html
Keep in mind, this is an entry level deep drop reel, not intended for the loads of swords. It is priced the same as a T1000, and is very competitive in this segment.
james@frigatesales.com
Thanks for your comment Frigate Sales.
I agree, these are "entry level" deep drop reels. And yes the Tanacom also has a plastic level wind mechanism similar (but not the same) to this Kaigen reel. I have done pre-services on 2 of these Tanacoms now, and while they have different internal mechanical layouts, I believe they are similar in abilities and limitations.
The failures in the Kaigen's levelwinds that I have seen are thus...
1. The one on my desk currently, the second time now I've had to replace the guide. The first time happened a fair few trips after the sword capture, but agree it would have been compromised by the stress of winding up the sword. The second time (now) only a handful of trips, (single day, maybe 1/2 doz at most) new part, probably only hauled up 15-20 fish over that period, none of those lifts would have had any more than 10-12kg combined weight of fish and drop weight. Maximum depth approx 500m.
2. The reel with the damaged worm/pawl posted earlier in this thread. I didn't realise it at the time, but the guide was also cracked. The reel owner had sourced the parts from Malaysia (worm, pawl and guide) which I exchanged as a matter of course. Savvy owner. Reel still giving good service since replacement, has had a suspected sword on it in that time. I expect to see this reel again sometime soon.
3. A reel handed to me that someone had tried to strip down to repair a faulty levelwind. Let's just say they botched the tear-down, and ended up giving up, went and bought a much more expensive all metal reel ($2k worth!!) and told me to keep the box with the reel in it, and do what a liked with it. Now a parts reel. Guide was split. Only been used to catch fish similar to that posted at the top of this page, in similar water depths. No swords hooked on this reel.
Unfortunately (!) in our waters the chance of hooking a sword in our waters is quite high when deep dropping. I understand what you mean by pulling line through the guide and de-synchronizing the line lay with the guide, and the load this creates. But there is enough to suggest that even regular winching work without the line loss will eventually fatigue and weaken these plastic guides. For a reel that retails in Australia for $800-900, I feel a metal guide should be fitted as stock.
I will post up a pic of the stainless piece I am making when I get home from work in a couple of weeks.
I have and use 3 of the Daiwa electric reels. 2 Tanacom Bull 1000's and 1 of the newer les expensive non bling ones you can get for around $599.00 fully spooled.
With the Daiwa reels you cannot get to the levelwind pawl without taking the reel apart. There is a bar underneath to stop the pawl cap from coming all the way off.
I have repaired a few non motor related issues but nothing major has come across the table. The drags are typical Daiwa "paper" type material and I always change those to Carbontex. The working parts of the reel are typical Daiwa star drag. They do have waterproofing seals around the gear sleeve and on top of the main gear.
The main and pinion gears are not as thick and large as the aforementioned reel.
I now have in stock an upgraded level wind pawl. This part wears over time, as it sees a lot of travel over the use of the reel. Banax has done some testing, and found that replacing this part with ceramic has greatly increased the level wind reliability. This will be included with all new production runs.
The new level wind pawl is supplied with all reels I ship out, I've retrofitted my inventory. If anybody needs one, let me know.
The upgrade can be done without disassembling the reel, 5 minutes and a flathead.
To follow up as promised. But this one has ended in frustration.
The reel I had on my bench had a faulty levelwind. Two things wrong, the shaft is damaged
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_25_37_21429847.png)
And the guide was cracked, it actually snapped the pawl cover sleeve clean off when trying to access the pawl
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_34_04_214471194.jpeg)
Here is another cracked guide from a previous reel that also had a faulty levelwind, and the entire worm/guide/pawl assembly was replaced.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_35_56_214511594.jpeg)
It's these guide failures that prompted me to attempt to make a stainless one.
I had roughed down the part from an M16 SS bolt on a 4-jaw chuck at work, and drilled the holes while at work. The rest of the guide was shaped by hand filing. The pawl cover was machined from some 10mm SS Rod, and threaded M8.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_33_48_21446414.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_32_56_214452116.jpeg)
All holes were honed with wet/dry of several grits, 220-800.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_34_31_214481864.jpeg)
And also polished with Autosol by spinning it in on a drill bit.
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpscf3uns9n.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpscf3uns9n.jpg.html)
The SS guide support rods were also given a polish with Autosol. While everything seemed to slide OK off the reel
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_30_30_2144168.jpeg)
There was binding at the end of travel at both ends, which even after carefully honing the bores several times, I couldn't improve. It seems as though the stainless would gall onto the guiding rods. I thinned down some grease with Corrosion X, and coated all parts, but no improvement could be achieved.
In hindsight, I probably needed to make some delrin sleeves to slide over the guiding rods, but that would require re-designing the guide to accommodate them. There is not much room to play with under all the cover shrouds. Alternatively, the guiding rods could have been skimmed down on a lathe.
For now, the reel's owner has decided to cut his losses and look into the purchase of another reel, type/brand undetermined at this stage.
So there you have it, I don't always succeed with my projects.
Now I have a bunch of Tiagras to service......
Cool. A for effort.
QuoteThere was binding at the end of travel at both ends, which even after carefully honing the bores several times, I couldn't improve. It seems as though the stainless would gall onto the guiding rods.
Actually, I would venture to guess that the holes themselves and rods are fine, but the holes c/c distance is ever so slightly off. Which is understandable because, to be honest, drilling perfect holes on a perfect c/c is in fact more difficult than it may seem.
Maybe you could figure out which one (sharpie + rub mark test?) and enlarge it a bit; make it work, so you win the game.
.
Definitely an "A" for Effort.
I totally agree with John. Sometimes it just doesn't all come together as we would like.
Unforeseen problems complicate the easiest task sometimes.
I tried building a reel this weekend that I have done many times before. It just didn't work out.
You have to just keep trying until you get it right.
The Gremlins were full force. Persistence will prevail. ;)
Chris, I'm not going to tell you not to give up, I already know you couldn't if you try.
This isn't an easy project, you have three holes, not two, if one is a hair off you would get what you're experiencing.
I'm with Doc, a little fine tuning and it should work like a charm.
This isn't assembling parts on a reel, this is creating parts.
As I've mentioned earlier, keep it going buddy.
I've been enjoying lots of things around here, yours, I enjoy the best.
Thanks for sharing your work with us.
Sal
Thanks for the words of encouragent guys, you might've actually inspired me to keep going.
Robert, it's the top hole that is causing the problem. I have honed the middle hole larger somewhat, it wasn't quite aligned properly, and I couldn't get the lower guide bar to slide into the frame recess without forcing it.
But now, the guide tilts a little as it moves, and I have to push the top of the guide to release the binding. This push is opposite to the force that would be present when the guide is trying to spool the line under tension. Hence me having concerns this would not work in a fishing situation.
I figured I've put 12-15hrs into this part, I guess another 3-4 won't hurt.
But have some other reels I need to service first before I return to this.
Will update again if I have any luck.
Hi just want to share what im doing with this kaigen recently.After my took this reel for fishing and big fish around 16kg and give a fight for 10 to 15 minute mechine start to feer hot so my friend put water to cool down the mechine pull up the fish and set another bait it hook another fish this time around 2kg but the mechine when wrong it feel hard to wind back like the drum stuck.so when i get back the reel and tear apart look like nothing broken.Anyone had this problem before what cause the reel stuck.
Thank
Some more
More
Hi agjoe5,
Check out the worm shaft for the level wind, and make sure there is no scoring marks on the shaft. It's possible that during the fight with the heavy fish the levelwind guide may have been over stressed and cracked. The worm chaser can then rub up over the shaft, and thus make the reel feel heavier to wind.
From your other pictures, there does not appear to be anything wrong.
If you could get a picture of the level wind worm, and guide can help you further. See my post on the 12/10/15 and check the pictures against your parts.
Hi thank for your advice rothmar sure i will look back the levelwind.
Thought I would re-visit this thread with a bit of a victory post.
I had previously attempted to make a SS level wind for this reel as I felt the plastic ones weren't strong enough. The problem I encountered first time around was the stainless' propensity to gall on itself.
So I made another guide with delrin inserts, to reduce the sliding friction.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_09_48_214011611.jpeg)
The inserts are all 1mm thick all around. So for the guide rods, which are 4mm, the sleeve insert is 6mm OD, 4mm ID. The main worm cover is 9mm, so the insert is 11mm OD, 9mm ID. The OD's were drilled into the SS blank, I clamped one of the original plastic guides to the SS blank (milled from an M24 bolt on the large, using a 4 jaw chuck), to get the holes aligned.
I trimmed as much of the blank down with a thin cut-off wheel on an angle grinder, then filed it down to final shape.
The inserts were made on my mini lathe at home. They did require a bit of honing by wrapping 600grit wet/dry paper around a 2mm drill bit, and used a cordless drill to spin the paper to hone, with a bit of oil for lubricant. I just did by hand until everything slid through inserts nicely, with minimal slop.
I also made a spacer for the chaser pawl. It's bang on 3mm now, but it was carefully trimmed from 3.5mm, the idea was to trim minute amounts off and test fit the cap with the spacer and pawl until there was just the slightest clearance of the pawl at the root of the worm, with the cap fully tightened.
You can see, the root of the worm is nearly clean of lube due to the tiny clearance
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_10_01_21403862.jpeg)
A little bit of Cals was worked into the inserts before final assembly, and it all slips nicely with no resistance. Only used the upper guide bar out of 2, I was unable to get the other to work without undue resistance, and was worried it would place too much stress on the plastic drive gear for the worm.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_09_56_21402886.jpeg)
So very happy to have got a result after a fair bit of effort. The owner won't have to worry about a broken guide ever again!
Very cool! ;)
Nice work Chris! I thought I was a patient man? I could definitely take some lessons from you.
It is difficult to get perfect alignment on 3 holes unless they are done in a good vertical mill or jig bore.
Possibly eliminating only one rod at a time will tell you which hole might be the culprit and then you can make an adjustment from there.
Never give up the ship. There's always a way to fix something and make it better!
Best regards, .. Lou
Hi Lou, I did try a few few times with the upper and lower posts individually and collectively. I managed to get a very nice fit with the honed delrin, there virtually no slack, so the guide does not tilt as it travels. I figured this should be OK, seeing as the rest of the guide is now stainless, should have no "creep" issues. If the delrin wears over time, it won't take much to replace them. I must add, the delrin sleeves were bonded with Loctite 406, after the surfaces were etched up a bit with some 180 grit paper. I probably could hone the lower guide hole and make it work, but at this point, I feel it isn't necessary. I guess time will tell. I'll post any further developments as they happen.
thanks a million for posting all of this. i just changed out the drag washers for a kaigen 250. it was amazingly easy!!!!!
I recently got the Kaigen I made the stainless level-wind piece for, back on my bench with a stripped drag star. Note, brass stars with fine pitch threads on a stainless gear sleeve are always going to be vulnerable to being stripped if overtightened or cross threaded.
Now here comes the sad part of this post, with yet another example of how the tackle industry works in Australia.
So I look online to find out who the Banax distributor is in Australia (won't mention it here, but easy enough to look up). I Email the distributor with the reel model (Kaigen 1000) and the part no and description of the part and can he supply a replacement.
The first reply I get a few hours later is "Where did you purchase the reel?".
I reply that it is not my reel and that I service and repair reels for people, but the reel was purchased from a local Tasmanian tackle store about 6 years ago.
"I need to see a picture of the reel". As I was away from home, I googled a picture of a Kaigen 1000, took a screen shot from my phone and forwarded it to him and said this is what the reel looks like.
"Why have you sent me an online picture of the reel? I need to see the reel in question".
It's at this point I realised that this was not going to go well (like so many other times when dealing with tackle distributors in Australia). I reply that I am currently on the road and that I will send him a pic of the actual reel when I get home. Remember here, all I am after is just the drag star, something that takes 5 mins to change. But I decide, I'll play this game to see what trail of sewerage I'll get fed. Needless to say it didn't disappoint!
I get home and take pics of the reel in question, and the stripped drag star and forward to him.
"No I cannot supply the part for that reel, that's not a reel I supply as it's not made to my specs (!) and besides it looks like it's been mistreated" (because there were a few scratches on the left end plastic cover and the Banax Logo and model number was a bit faded).
So I asked why he cannot or will-not sell me the required part, is he, or is he not the registered Banax distributor in Australia? (it's on his website). I said the reel has no other faults other than this stripped star, would only take 5mins to replace, and I don't see what the reel's outward appearance has to do with this part request. I said that this reel gets used frequently hence why it had a bit of boat rash.
"I don't want to supply a part that is incorrect or damages this reel as I'm worried this may leave me liable for a for a warranty replacement" (!)
I said back to this, that as the reel was 6 years old, it is well beyond any warranty period, nor would we even think about pursuing any warranty action, for the sake of what shouldn't be any more than a $30 part, and 5mins of time, we can continue to use this reel. I also sent a couple of pictures of the star with verniers showing dimensions, and challenged him to measure his "own spec" Banax Kaigens and see if there were any major differences in dimensions of the drag star.
Needless to say I got no further reply via Email on this particular day.
The following day, I decided to ring said distributor directly and ask if he bothered to look at the pics and compare. Of course he hadn't, and then went on this big spiel about how he doesn't make any money out of these reels, that he is under no obligation to supply spare parts, and that Banax would back him up on this (!). He then went on about "parrallel imports" that the Tasmanian tackle store that the reel was purchased from, may have done, and how if that was so, why he said the Tassie Store's reels would be of "different spec" to his Banax Kaigen reels (what a load of BS!). He then went on to say, he has had problems with warranty claims on these reels in the past, and that the "Tackle industry ombudsman" had intervened, (Australia does not have a "Fishing tackle ombudsman"). He then said he would be happy to sell me one of "his spec" reels that he would provide after sales service on, but otherwise I'd have to go back to the tackle-store the reel was purchased from and deal with them. I'll add that said store has a bad reputation for putting 100%+ mark-up on parts they get in for you.
It was then I'd heard enough BS for the day and ended the call.
What I hadn't told this clown, was that I was aware of the "WFT Electra 1200" distributed by Jarvis Walker Fishing Tackle Australia, is virtually the same reel. You be the judge......
Banax Kaigen 1000
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_11_26_214041022.png)
WFT Electra 1200
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/10783_29_08_17_12_11_34_21405606.png)
This is one case where OEM rebadging can come in handy IF you know what the rebadged OEM reels are. Alan Hawk has some great articles on this on his fantastic blog.
http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rebdd.html
Now for a bit of a happy ending, and hope for those in Australia reading this, that are having problems with your Kaigen 1000 reel.
I went to a local independent Tassie tackle store, (not the purchase place one), and asked the owner if he could get a replacement star for a WFT Electra 1200. "No problem" he says. He rings up Anglers Central Service Centre, https://www.anglerscentral.com.au/, asks, and within 5mins the order is made. 2 working days later the part arrives, total charge $13 (postage included). And guess what? Fits perfectly!
If you are reading this from Australia, and are considering purchasing an "entry level" electric reel for deep reef fishing, give the WFT Electra 1200 some serious thought, over a Banax Kaigen 1000. You get a bonus set of harness lugs, and parts availability through Jarvis Walker/Anglers Central does not appear to be a problem.
I don't like making posts like this, but feel it's important that this information is out there to save other people from being jerked around by rogue-ish tackle distributors that are rife in this country.
If anyone else around the world knows of any other re-badged incarnations of this reel, please post it here.
Edit and Update - Interesting to note after rebuilding the picture links, thought I would look up old-mate from this post, and he no longer lists Banax reels on his website......"Things that make you go mmmmm"
Good day mate!
Hi everybody- azli from kuala lumpur malaysia.
having problem with my kaigen 1000 recently. So searching the net and lead me to this page. By reading and study all the posting here which is help me alot. all of the comment and advised very helpfull together with the picture. But problem that i am facing with my kaigen still not solve so i would like some assist here.
My kaigen at the beginning give symtom cannot winding in the line when strike the fish - few time forward and backward the lever untill sometime work and many time doesnt work. Untill it not response at all now.
So currently i already dismantle all the section and carefully working on hiw to open up the motor drive compartment to see inside. Unsuccessful yet !
Look forward If someone could advise further where to look for the problem or faulty parts.
Thank you and regards
Azli
This one is going to be tough. I've never messed with the electrical portion of any of these reels, just the drag washers and bearings. There has to be some way to contact the manufacturer.
Quote from: Macs on April 02, 2022, 05:19:30 AMGood day mate!
Hi everybody- azli from kuala lumpur malaysia.
having problem with my kaigen 1000 recently. So searching the net and lead me to this page. By reading and study all the posting here which is help me alot. all of the comment and advised very helpfull together with the picture. But problem that i am facing with my kaigen still not solve so i would like some assist here.
My kaigen at the beginning give symtom cannot winding in the line when strike the fish - few time forward and backward the lever untill sometime work and many time doesnt work. Untill it not response at all now.
So currently i already dismantle all the section and carefully working on hiw to open up the motor drive compartment to see inside. Unsuccessful yet !
Look forward If someone could advise further where to look for the problem or faulty parts.
Thank you and regards
Azli
Hi Azli,
Are you referring to the lever that activates the electric drive, and the electric motor is not operating to reel in the line?
Sorry I haven't answered sooner, I don't check in every day like I used to.
Chris
Hey guys i really need your help. I purchased 4 kaigen 1000 a week ago but i have the same problem with all 4 of them.
After spooling all of them with 80lbs braid. I found that the drag is very weak. So i decided to measure it.
The maximum drag i got is 11lbs! Used a scale to measure the drag.
Is there something i missed or did wrong?
I didn't input the line PE rating when spooling the reel. Could it be the reason?
Thank you for helping me guys :d
Is the braid slipping on the spool? The drag is mechanical; changing the reel settings only affects the line counter accuracy.
Did you buy them new or used?
Quote from: boon on June 16, 2022, 02:20:19 AMIs the braid slipping on the spool? The drag is mechanical; changing the reel settings only affects the line counter accuracy.
Did you buy them new or used?
Hi! They are all new. They have been spooled tightly with 1000 meters of line so there cant be slippage. Banax said that the drag can be adjusted to a maximum of 35 lbs. But i dont have experience adjusting the drag in a kaigen 1000.
Can you please help?
They're just a regular old star drag. How tight have you got the star wound down?
Quote from: boon on June 16, 2022, 11:03:17 PMThey're just a regular old star drag. How tight have you got the star wound down?
If i tighten it really really hard i am getting a maximum of 20 lbs drag . If I put in more pressure I am afraid the star drag will break
Hey guys when you first received your new kaigen did you have to force on the star drag to get a drag of 20lbs?
Or was it smooth?
any chance that you have braid that is slipping on the spool? that is almost always the source of the problem.
QuoteThey have been spooled tightly with 1000 meters of line so there cant be slippage.
While packing the GSP line well so that it will does dig in and bind is a good idea, it will also make it
more likely to slip on th spool. The line grips to itself, forming a hard "puck" that can spin in unison if not tightly anchored to the spool. The only way to know for sure is to mark the spool with a felt pin or some tape, and see if the spool slows or stops when you pull line against drag.
If braid is tied to the spool with a single wrap to a standard arbor knot, slippage is a risk.
If line slippage is not a problem:
Reel manufacturers are often "optimistic" about stated max drag. Sometimes the drag stack is not setup with enough spacers, so you run out of real estate tightening the star. This could be the case for your reel.
Often the published max drag is never achievable, or if used for extended runs would damage the reel. My suspicion has always been that star drags stacks are setup often at the factory to make difficult to set at or near the published max. I stick extra spacers and/or bellevilles in many of my star drags in order to have a more reasonable number of turns in the useful drag setting, and not have to winch down on the star to reach my max drag.
Don't own any electric reels myself. No idea about what the practical max drag for the Banax is. Twenty lbs is a decent amount of drag, and requires a pretty robust reel for extended runs. Would be curious to know what other Banax owners see.
-J