Reel Repair by Alan Tani

I worked at Robins AFB for 39 years in Electronics,the Avionics center consisted of 2 large metal buildings like 1000ft long each-2 stories. One had been a prop shop built in the 40s.A few years before I retired lightning poles were installed near the buildings,I am sure Mike is familiar.The smaller metal building my engineering office was in had an array of smaller poles on top of it all grounded together.I have no idea the correct nomenclature...

Quote from: jgp12000 on September 11, 2022, 12:32:44 PMlightning poles were installed near the buildings,I am sure Mike is familiar. The smaller metal building my engineering office was in had an array of smaller poles on top of it all grounded together.

 The first description sounds like what the military likes to use (NASA too). These are a type of large Faraday Cage but they are also referred to as 'catenaries'. A simple system would be four telephone poles with a lightning rod on each pole and the poles are connected with heavy copper cable strung between them and tied to ground rods. The military uses these for explosives storage and NASA uses them for launch complex protection.

The second system you describe sounds like a Franklin System (also known as 'lightning rods' or 'air-terminals'). These go all the way back to Ben Franklin and work very well for protecting masonry and structures but not so well at protecting the electrical systems inside.

Both the Faraday/Catenary and the Franklin Air-terminals are considered 'collection systems'. They are basically saying, "Hit me here." Lightning rods can be self protecting in weaker electrostatic fields but as the field intensifies, the physics reverse and the point of the rod triggers and collects the strike. This was perfect for Franklin because he was protecting brick chimneys. Directing the lightning current over the surface of the masonry rather than through it saved the chimneys from structural damage. During a lightning discharge, any moisture in the masonry quickly expands as steam and will cause blow-outs. Trees explode because the sap boils.

Fast-forward to modern times and EVERYTHING is electrified and automated. Close proximity lightning strikes will play havoc with any electric circuit, even without a direct termination (lightning Strike). The founder of the company I work for was from NASA. He witnessed lightning strikes to the launch pads and was convinced that there was a better way to deal with lightning. He founded Lightning Elimination Associates and developed the Dissipation Array System. He met nothing but resistance from the government, NASA, and most of the scientific community. But our clients disagreed. They were telling us that they had tried everything available and that we were their last hope. After 50 years these Dissipation Array Systems have finally been recognized by the scientific community and are generically know as 'charge transfer systems'. We're now called Lightning Eliminators and Consultants. As far as we know, we are the only company that guaranties no lightning strikes. Once you get rid of the lightning strikes, everything works better and lasts longer. When I was younger, I did a lot of towers and the customer engineer would always ask me what our array was going to do to his signal. At the end of the install it was typical hear that the client now has the best signal ever. 

Don't worry James...you don't need an array. I would suggest establishing a good earth ground point at your power center near the pond and a good, solid surge suppressor (or two). Depending on your budget; it might be a good idea to add a water-proof electrical enclosure at the post. This serves several purposes. It will give protection from the elements (water and U/V), it will also have a good Faraday effect and will shield your equipment from most of the electrostatic fluctuation, and it will serve as a good single point ground. You will want this enclosure boned directly to the ground rod and all the equipment inside should also be grounded to the enclosure. A ground bus inside the enclosure is best.

A couple more details. All the components in your timer/controller have a spec that's known as MTBF (mean time before failure). Many lightning events over time may not kill your equipment but it will weaken and degrade the components. Eventually, that one lightning event will push it over the edge and kill it.

Also, any SPDs (surge prevention devices) that you install should have a direct path to ground. The shortest and most direct path is preferable. This is to keep reaction times as short as possible (small portions of a cycle). Also, many electricians will want to coil up excess conductors rather than cut them to length. Don't do this. Also avoid any parallel routing if possible. They to maintain 4" minimum for parallel routing of 'protected' and 'unprotected' lines. This can be difficult in crowded enclosures.

I can't offer a suggestion for an SPD at the moment. I'll ask some of my colleagues during the week. We don't manufacture these anymore as the entire market has gone to imports. You might try looking into these guys: https://www.empshield.com/
I don't know anything about them but they do have a $25,000 equipment replacement warranty (be sure to read the fine print).

I hope this is helpful.
-Mike

That is very informative and you know your stuff!

I would love to know what Scott Aerator meant by 'everything was fried'. It's hard to know where to begin without specific information. I've seen a bit of lightning damage and it ranges from invisible to melted pipe and cable.

The reason I was asking about how the aerator was anchored was because I was wondering if any earthing was taking place in the pond but the aerator just floats out there.

I think you said you already installed a series SPD on the light controller. Is that the bulge I see in the light cable? If so, is that SPD grounded by some sort of dedicated ground or just through the lighting circuit?

Like a good gumbo...lightning protection has its holy trinity too. Grounding, surge protection, and strike prevention. Looking at your topography; I wouldn't be too concerned with strike prevention. Put your efforts and budget into grounding and surge prevention, but don't overlook your panel at the house. Unless you already have an SPD there, you are vulnerable to transient voltages from your buried line from the pond.

Mike —-

Thanks for helping James with this lightning/pond issue.

Few folks in the world could give him the accurate and deeply professional solutions that your experience offers.

Best, Fred

The talent on this site always seems to amaze me.  Good work Mike.  Our cabin which is at 6000+ feet has been struck twice.  Lost a bunch of electronics.  We try to remember to unplug everything when we leave.  Dominick

Dominick,
The trouble with lightning protection is that it's sometimes more expensive than what you're trying to protect. With that said, there are some simple, economical approaches.

In your situation, you might not be suffering direct strikes but instead you may be getting 'surged' by your utility. Are you at the end of a distribution line?...or near a transformer?

Ground/earthing enhancements along with quality surge protectors may resolve most if not all of your issues. Also instead of unplugging everything, you can mark your panel and open all the non-essential breakers as part of your 'leaving routine'. Just make sure you leave the refrigerator running.

The very first thing I would invest in is grounding. At 6000' I would guess that most of your soil is DG which can have a very high resistivity. This is a resistance value of your soil and it will vary at depth and location. There is likely only one 10' ground rod at your panel or maybe just a waterpipe ground. Either can be very good...or real bad. You can't always judge soil by its looks. I recommend driving at least one additional rod. Without knowing your soil resistivity, deeper is better. But at 6000', you likely have some huge rocks underground. I would read the terrain to make a best estimate of a site that you can drive a deep rod. They come in 10' lengths and you can screw them together as you go. Drive them with an electric jackhammer with a ground rod bit. 20' - 30' should suffice. This ground rod should be connected to your existing ground rod and all connections need to be clean and tight.

Next put a surge suppressor at your panel and make certain that it makes a homerun to that ground rod. This should catch your surges from the utility. I would also recommend plug-in surge suppressors at the outlets especially where electronics have been damaged previously. Also make certain that these outlets have good grounds.

Here's a good thing to know. Almost all surge suppressor companies offer a damage/replacement warranty. Do some research to find out IF they stand behind their products and honor their warranties. These warranties are more of a sales gimmick but you can think of them as an 'insurance policy' should you experience damage.

That's about as economical as you can go but may cost more than your losses.

-Mike   

Mike, thanks for that.  The ground under the cabin is mostly boulders.  I expect that most of rest of the ground is rock.  I think the circuit breaker is the way to go.  I'll figure out the refrigerator and the furnace.  I don't think I need anything else running.  Dominick

I have been looking at videos of wiring the grounding rod, and one said to bond the breaker box cabinet to the neutral bus bar, then run a wire  to the ground rod is that correct? In the beginning of the install I had a 230VAC GFIC in the shop feeding the power pole at the pond and it would trip immediately when energized . I returned it, the new one tripped as well. So I had to use a regular 230VAC breaker to get the fountain to work. I read a shared neutral might cause this, could bonding the safety ground to the neutral buss bar solve the GFIC issue. I know neutral to ground already reads continuity , I have just never had to do this? I don't get the shared neutral statement, am I  missing something (brain fart) ,if it's in parallel it's the same point electrically speaking. Any real live electricians out there? I attached photos of 230VAC breaker in the shop,230VAC and 115VAC breaker at the pond, and the outlets for the fountain and the lights.

Don't wanna be in a Boat in this .

Quote from: jgp12000 on September 15, 2022, 04:12:48 PMI have been looking at videos of wiring the grounding rod,and one said to bond the breaker box to the neutral bus bar, then run a wire it to the ground rod is that correct?

Hi James —-

Very well could be.  I just don't know from this far away.

I do know that GFCI's are notorious for tripping any time any sort of change of fluctuation occurs.

Recently (last month) —- I installed a new converter in our cabover camper.  GFCI kept tripping.  After going into each receptacle, checking connections, continuity, and basically everything in every appliance —- I was advised to take the GFCI out of the circuit —- and everything works fine.

In your case, I would strongly advise getting a well recommended and competently experienced electrician to review and check out your system.

Can't be too confident otherwise.

Best, Fred

I know Henry knows, he just likes to josh around...a coworker of mine used to say "it's not rocket science,it's just electronics"

Hey James, Is this a ground rod at the pond? If so, what's it connected to?

I watched the video and it's okay but there are quite a few things I would do differently. I was discussing your situation with a coworker today but we got distracted with work. I'm not good with code because I don't do electric services every day (I hire a sparky). I can and will give you some good advice once I get all the details sorted out.

The video looks okay for a common residential service panel BUT, because you are in FL and you have a big open space with electric circuits (underground and underwater)...you probably want to get better 'earth' than what he is making with the 10' ground rods x2. I'm not an electrician but I have done lots of ground testing and have seen empirical results and know what works best.

I believe residential code would like to see 25 ohms to earth on a ground rod. But if you don't achieve that on the first try, the code only requires you to drive a 2nd rod and walk away. Our customer's equipment requirements can be 5 ohms or lower so we have multiple strategies to help us achieve that.

I'll point out the stuff in the video just for everyone's knowledge. 1) Don't put two 10' ground rods 6' apart. This is a waste of copper and will not improve your resistance to earth. The rule of thumb is to always separate ground rods by 2.5 times their length. This is so that their 'spheres of influence' don't overlap acting like just one rod. Even better is to get rods that you can couple and drive 10 - 30 feet of rod. Drive 10' of rod then screw on another and drive that another 10'. This will significantly lower your resistance to earth which is important for maximum efficiency of your SPDs. 2) Those pipe grounding clamps in the video will rust and get loose. I replace these all the time because they have become loose and are too rusty to tighten. Use brass ground rod clamps (acorn clamps). We try not to burry these as the dirt and moisture get them cruddy. If it's exposed, you can keep an eye on it. 3) Electricians always want to make nice clean 90 degree bends in the ground wire. For lightning protection the standards (UL and NFPA) require 8" minimum radius for turns in ground conductors. You don't always have room for the large radius but always 'sweep' your bends whenever possible.

I noticed a Tripp Lite SPD on your outlet. Is that new?

I gotta go...Costco run ugh.

Mike

Yes Mike,that is the ground rod waiting to be hooked up,and the Tripp lite SPD is new.I just want to try to cover all bases before I install the 3rd new light kit. I am in GA in need of a Fla trip.

  You can google it , but the short story is in the main panel neutrals and bonding grounds  are ok .
Sub panels have to be separate .
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/1706/is-it-ok-to-have-mixed-grounds-and-neutrals-on-bars-in-a-breaker-box