I am servicing a Penn Senator 16/0. I am not a pro, but I just wanted to bring something to the table.
[IMhttp://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/DSC_0026-2.jpg.htmlG]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture002.jpg[/img]
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture007.jpg)
I will start by removing the handle.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture009.jpg)
Next, I will remove the right side plate.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture011.jpg)
I like to keep the screws in a marked container.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture010.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture012.jpg)
As you can see, the inner side of the plate looks pretty clean, but that doesn't mean much. I will set it on the side for now.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture014.jpg)
Next, I will remove the spool, the frame posts, and the stand.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture015.jpg)
I will then remove the left plate.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture017.jpg)
At this point, I will be working on the left plate.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture019.jpg)
I'll now remove the bearing. It feels good, so I'm only going to clean it and pack it with grease.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture020.jpg)
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I will scrape some of the dried grease off of the clicker tongue and give it a good coat of grease before I put the bearing back in place. I will also lightly grease the inside of the plate.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture028.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture029.jpg)
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I will now install the frame posts and the stand.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture032.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture034.jpg)
I will put the spool back in place and set it on the side for now.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture035.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture036.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture037.jpg)
Now I will work on the right side plate. I start by removing the bridge screws.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture038.jpg)
As you can see, the sleeve needs to be replaced. The tip is rounded.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture040.jpg)
I have the true replacement, but I am going to go with a stainless steel upgrade (just my preference.)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture041.jpg)
The stainless steel sleeve had too much play, so I added a washer. It feels right now.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture043.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture044.jpg)
I will also be replacing the asbestos washers with HT100s.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture046.jpg)
The main gear is in pretty good shape, but at this point I am just going to replace it. We will get to this in a little while.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture047.jpg)
I will now remove the eccentric, bearing, and dog. I will clean the bearing as before.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture048.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture050.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture051.jpg)
The dog springs will need to be replaced. The one on the right shows wear.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture054.jpg)
I will now clean the yoke, the jack, and the eccentric and grease them. Then I will reassemble.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture055.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture056.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture057.jpg)
The pinion gear looks great. I will just grease it.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture058.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture059.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture060.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture061.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture062.jpg)
Next, I will install the bridge. At this point, leave it tilted a bit so you can install the dog spring and then line it up.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture063.jpg)
Set the dog from the other side while you hold the bridge in place. You will feel that the bridge will set itself
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture064.jpg)
I will now install the bridge screws.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture066.jpg)
I will also replace the fiber washer under the main gear with a HT100 as Alan recommends.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture067.jpg)
Slide the main gear in. It gets a little tricky. Move the eccentric lever forward, as if you were engaging the gears. Press on the pinion gear with one hand and the main gear will slide right in. This is what works for me.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture068.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture069.jpg)
I will now install the new drags, the drag shield, and the star wheel with the tension spring. Drags have been lightly coated with Cal's grease.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture070.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture072.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture073.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture075.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture076.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture077.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture078.jpg)
I will now reattach the handle, tighten the handle screw all the way, and then back it up one notch and install the set screw.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture079.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture081.jpg)
Here is the finished product, ready to go for another 50 years and more. I hope you enjoyed it for what it's worth. Thank you Alan for giving me the opportunity. Take care, Sal.
Here are the pics, sorry if they're not in order:
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[(http://i.imgur.com/YOwBEZr.jpg)
img]http://i.imgur.com/SpHVtL4.jpg[/img]
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great job thank's a million, from alan's fan club
aloha kamu
after thinking back not very long ago,and trying to do what you just did would have been next to impossible without ending up with some spare parts.we have seen the light!and been shown the way.very good for us salt-water athletes,yippee :D
Way to go Alto, looks good........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Rooster5101/funny%20stuff/Funny%20Stuff%20Gifs/000204AE.gif)
Great job!
But I have a question: I always replace both the pinion and main gear when I replace either one of them. I take it you replaced only the main gear. Do the gears mesh OK?
Good observation, Akfish. Although it makes sense to take the guesswork out and replace the main and pinion gear at the same time, I personally don't beleive in it. I am not making any judgements here, if you feel that they both need to be replaced, then go for it! I usually replace only what needs to be replaced and always check the reel afterwards for functionality. Gears are manufactured to the same specs but are not made out of the same material. The pinion gear is made out of stainless steel and the main gear is bronze alloy, I don't think they wear the same. In the tutorial I stated that the main gear looked pretty good, but decided to replace it anyway, that does not mean that I will toss that one out. When this reel was re-assembled, I tested it and it performed flawlessly, so yes, the gears do mesh. Thanks for looking at my tutorial, I could have fine-tuned it a bit but didn't have the time.
Also, thanks to Kamuwela, Wallacewt and Roger for the kind words. Take care guys, Sal
From a collector's view....Put that 16/0 on a shelf and look at it. Don't fish it and get it all corroded.
bravo, sal! send me a pm with your address. i want to send you a wrench. thanks! alan
Very nice. I still remember fishing these when I was a kid. Okay, I really wasn't fishing them, it was my uncle and his friends. I was the gaffer/spiker. Ah, those were the days.
Sal,
Great job on the reel and tutorial! I've done that reel about 6 times, and love how the bridge fits in much easier than the smaller Penn Senators. I have to agree with Marlinmate... Shelf it!
Dom
Thanks Dom, you're right, working on these larger reels is much easier. I wouldn't mind using it, but with my boat, I only venture out about 10 miles . You're a Penn guy like myself, maybe I can hitch a ride on your 32 footer so we can show these guys what these vintage reels can do. Take care, Sal ;)
sal, where'd you get all the main gears?
Hey Sal,
Where are you located, and where do you boat out of? That would be cool to fish all vintage Penns for a tuna/shark trip. You have any experience with offshore fishing?
Dom
I had a piece of stainless steel in the garage and I decided to give this a shot. I got the motivation from Lee, thanks Lee but you can have it. This is all done by hand using some of the tools that I have. As you know, I really like you guys, so don't ask me to make you one because I'm just not going to do it, sorry.
This dog is installed on my 16/0, that's the same reel that I made a tutorial on, when I first joined this great site. I thought I was cool then, boy did I look stupid afterward, besides Alan, I had no idea of the talent that already existed here. Here are a couple of shots.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2046.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2047.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2044.jpg)
i'm thinking that the next run of gear sleeves should have more teeth. great post!
How thick it the original dog? I have some stainless sheet thats about 1/16 is this too thin?If it is the right size for dogs I might be able to send some out to those that want to make a few.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 04, 2012, 09:23:30 PM
How thick it the original dog? I have some stainless sheet thats about 1/16 is this too thin?If it is the right size for dogs I might be able to send some out to those that want to make a few.
Yes, you will need 1/8. I just want to mention that it might not be worth the effort. Of course I don't know if you have experience with power tools, I'm a General Contractor and have lots and lots of tools, this dog was cut with a diamond tool with lots of water running through it, to keep the piece cool. I believe that the piece would be worthless if you overheat it, Keta could answer that one better than me, I'm a stone/brick mason and carpenter and don't know much about steel.
I would recommend to get Lee (Keta) to make us some, but I'm not sure if he would be willing, he's already helping us quite a bit. I know for sure that I would not attempt another one, I just don't have the patience that I used to have. Sal
Quote from: alantani on March 04, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
i'm thinking that the next run of gear sleeves should have more teeth. great post!
Great idea Alan, put me down for a half dozen. Sal
Guess the 1/16 won't work then.I'm a welder so I also have alot of tools, I've got 1/8HR steel but will keep an eye out for 1/8SS.I don't think over heating the SS while cutting it will hurt, it may get a little color at the cut but thats ok.I have also thought about making SS bridge plates, if I find the steel I can cut it to shape but I don't have a lathe to make the post.
Sal, could you pleeeeze make me one? I have no use for it but will put it in a frame with a note that says, "Made by the master, Sal".
Ok, since you're not going to be making any for anyone, how about you just send me your tank? I'll put a gummy label on the left side plate with the same note. :D
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 08:00:07 PM
I had a piece of stainless steel in the garage and I decided to give this a shot. I got the motivation from Lee, thanks Lee but you can have it. This is all done by hand using some of the tools that I have. As you know, I really like you guys, so don't ask me to make you one because I'm just not going to do it, sorry.
This dog is installed on my 16/0, that's the same reel that I made a tutorial on, when I first joined this great site. I thought I was cool then, boy did I look stupid afterward, besides Alan, I had no idea of the talent that already existed here. Here are a couple of shots.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 04, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
Guess the 1/16 won't work then.I'm a welder so I also have alot of tools, I've got 1/8HR steel but will keep an eye out for 1/8SS.I don't think over heating the SS while cutting it will hurt, it may get a little color at the cut but thats ok.I have also thought about making SS bridge plates, if I find the steel I can cut it to shape but I don't have a lathe to make the post.
I wasn't bragging or anything, I'm actually sick of it. I've being doing this for over 40 years, I just wanted to prove a point that if you didn't have to ...don't. Of course it shouldn't be a problem for you. I only had one bracket that someone made me a while back for a job, if I had more I would have send it to you. Good luck with it, I'm sure it would be a piece of cake for you.
No master here Albert, just finding new things to do to get on my wife's nerves ;)
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 11:40:08 PM
No master here Albert, just finding new things to do to get on my wife's nerves ;)
Ok, so how about sending me the Tank? That should really get her going since you spent all that time on it just to send it away?
I don't know that it would be a piece of cake for me but I would like to try to make some things for senators. If I ever make any SS bridge plates/ posts I will have to send a few out to members on here.I think the tank could use a little more SS in it ;D
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 12:10:09 AM
I don't know that it would be a piece of cake for me but I would like to try to make some things for senators. If I ever make any SS bridge plates/ posts I will have to send a few out to members on here.I think the tank could use a little more SS in it ;D
What, exactly are you trying to make that you need a lathe for?
Need the lathe to make the post that the gear sleeve is on.
G'day SP,
The post is S/S already, so you could potentially punch it out and re-press it into an S/S bridge plate.
I'm curious, though, about the advantages of an S/S bridge, as I've never seen one fail etc.
No doubt they look great, but are there other advantages you have in mind?
Cheers, Justin
I don't know that it would really help anything but wouldn't it be nice to open a Senator and see all SS?It wouldn't turn green either :) Thats a good idea for the post also, but last time I had to buy a bridge plate for a 113 it cost $18..If I can make the post cheaper it would be better.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 12:13:53 AM
Need the lathe to make the post that the gear sleeve is on.
I could probably cut you the shaft, but need the exact dimension. How will you mount it? Weld?
I'm thinking that it's a great idea, not only for beauty but also for functionality. We could use a bridge that is an 1/8 of an inch wider by the new dog area on the 113h. Squirmypug, you and Keta and Albert should have a meeting, Keta came up with that idea when I first converted the reel/tank. Good luck with it, I'm hoping that something will come out of it. Sal
Yes I was thinking about drilling a hole for the post to go through and tig welding it from the back.Would need a tight fit to keep the post from pulling so much when welded.Could also thread the bottom of the post and screw it into the plate and put just a very small tack weld to keep it from backing out, it would keep the heat from welding down and reduce warping of the SS.
Alto if I make any I will need you to draw the plate the shape you need for the extra dog, if i'm cutting the plate by hand a little mod. in the shape is easy to add ;)
Thanks SP - that's what I figured.
QuoteHow will you mount it? Weld?
Albert raises a good point here.
I tried unsuccessfully to re-press a loose post - ended up breaking it.
Welding's an option, but overheating can cause the S/S to become brittle.
Tapping and screwing would probably be the easiest solution.
I definitely like the idea of all S/S internals though! ;) ;D
And particularly like Alan's idea of more teeth on the gear sleeve.
Interesting thread lads, cheers.
All the best, Justin
The SS will only become brittle if it is really overheated, usually it will turn dark grey/black and might have "sugaring" on the side that isn't shielded by argon.I've welded alot of SS so it shouldn't be much of a problem, but SS warps alot when welded and that is harder to reduce.
Cheers SP - good to know.
All the best, Justin
Send me your address. The shaft is ready to go.
Not exact dimensions (close), but it fit on my reel. I actually think there is too much slop between the shaft and sleeve on the originals. If I were to do it over, I'd want to cut it to my own, closer, specs.
That was fast! Which reel did you make it for? It could take me a while to find 1/8 stainless to use but I can make one from HR steel and your post as a test if you want.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 03:44:48 AM
That was fast! Which reel did you make it for? It could take me a while to find 1/8 stainless to use but I can make one from HR steel and your post as a test if you want.
It was made for the 14/0 an 16/0 reels since that's what we were talking about. I don't need for it to be tested since it worked on the sleeve from my reel. I made the thing for you, but if you don't want it, I'll just toss it.
I don't even have a 14 or 16/0, this just happened to be the post that got me thinking about making these ;D If you want to send it to me I will make it when I find the SS, but that could be a while.I would send it back to you after making it for testing or could send it to someone else that wants a SS bridge plate.I was mainly thinking about making them for the 113h tank and 114h that others like to double dog and add SS parts to. No need to toss it, it took some time to make. Thanks for being so willing to help though!
Nice, building the the larger dog lets you keep your finger prints longer.
I'll have to check but 1/16 might work for Jigmaster dogs.
I believe that the piece would be worthless if you overheat it, Keta could answer that one better than me, I'm a stone/brick mason and carpenter and don't know much about steel.Too much heat is bad, try to keep the metal from turning blue. Most of the work on the first 114H dogs was by hand honing them to the final dimensions so heat was not a problem. The water cut ones will only need a little sanding to clean them up and the contact surfaces polished.
If I have a dog I can locate material and make a copy out of SS. Let me know what is needed and if you have an old dog get it to me and I'll make them. I was thinking about making slightly wider SS bridges but I'll just install a pin to keep the second dog spring in place.
Quote from: alantani on March 04, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
I'm thinking that the next run of gear sleeves should have more teeth. great post!
Good idea
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 12:13:53 AM
Need the lathe to make the post that the gear sleeve is on.
Last Friday I dug an old Atlas Mk1 6" late out of a neighbors scrap pile and I'm working on getting it running for making these. Are you set up to TIG weld? I'd have to borrow a machine but I have 316 rod. I can get the bridge plate water cut if I have one but I've only had to replace 1 in many years and didn't keep it.
Yes I'm all set for tig welding, and can make an aluminium heat sink from 1/4 in to help keep the heat down from welding if needed.
If the post is a slight press fit you should be able to weld the back side without much heat problems. Something like Solar Flux on the other side would help keep them looking nice too.
Now........how do I get the shaft out of a spool without dammaging the spool.
Yes I was thinking the same thing, but with 1/8 SS it shouldn't get much color.I haven't used solar flux before but could get some if it is really needed.
Spool shaft could be a little harder to remove without damage to the spool..Heat and press is my only thought for that :-\
My brother owned a Aviation Weld Repair Station and machine shop and most of his work was on very thin material so we used a lot of Solar Flux.
Brother did much better retro cobbling than I can but he had a full machene shop. I wish I had photos of some of the Zero gear boxes he built. My S-n-L is curently working on the plane.
"Counterfeit" piece for Evergreen Aviation's WWII Zero restore. The number stamp is even "offficial", the anodising isn't. 60+ years in the Jungle was not good to the plane.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/ZeroParts.jpg)
Thats a great looking piece ;D We have been talking about all this in the 16/0 thread, should we start another so that theres not so many posts in this?
That's some class work Lee.
It's turning into a great thread.
Cheers, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on March 05, 2012, 12:52:43 AM
Thanks SP - that's what I figured.
QuoteHow will you mount it? Weld?
Albert raises a good point here.
I tried unsuccessfully to re-press a loose post - ended up breaking it.
Welding's an option, but overheating can cause the S/S to become brittle.
Tapping and screwing would probably be the easiest solution.
I definitely like the idea of all S/S internals though! ;) ;D
And particularly like Alan's idea of more teeth on the gear sleeve.
Interesting thread lads, cheers.
All the best, Justin
My question was more for the purpose of laying out the dimensions of the post. The original post (actually, all Senator posts that I've seen) are pressed on. "Pressed on" meaning the shaft has a 3/8" base (it's only about 1/8" thick and sits on the plate) that is then reduced to 1/4" (see right end of shaft). The plate has a 1/4" hole into which the shaft sits. The protruding 1/4" piece is then pressed so that it squashes the 1/4" section, making it expand in the hole, and then flared so that the remaining portion is smashed over the plate. This give vertical and horizontal stability.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pb2P3bvNDdB-y9DqxeMgaMOi9Jo97o0voK-DB5443C0--IzYKGs_Uhwp2w_ShmgTAMKFG4OW-hCujdSFYSMYwHA/shaft.jpg?psid=1)
To press the shaft onto the plate, one must have an "anvil" which is a solid piece into which a 1/4" hole is drilled. The shaft is placed into the hole (the left side goes in first, so it will stop at the 3/8" section) and the plate fitted onto the shaft. The shaft is then smashed with a press to fix the shaft into place.
I have a hydraulic piston mounted in a press, I could make an anvil from 3/8 plate.I don't know if the piston is strong enough to do this. All I have to do is pull a lever to use the press so that would be easy if it is strong enough.Also not sure if the 3/8 plate is strong enough, might have to double it and brace it.I think the best way is to weld it, would be very fast and simple.
You did good on that pin Makule, what kind of SS did you use? 304, 316, 303?
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 11:15:17 PM
I have a hydraulic piston mounted in a press, I could make an anvil from 3/8 plate.I don't know if the piston is strong enough to do this. All I have to do is pull a lever to use the press so that would be easy if it is strong enough.Also not sure if the 3/8 plate is strong enough, might have to double it and brace it.I think the best way is to weld it, would be very fast and simple.
I would just take something like a 1" solid rod and drill a 1/4" hole in one end and use that as the anvil.
Do not attempt to press the shaft with it standing on end as it will break the small cutout that's used to hold the pin that holds the sleeve to the shaft. The pressure of the press must be totally held by the anvil.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 05, 2012, 11:17:11 PM
You did good on that pin Makule, what kind of SS did you use? 304, 316, 303?
Don't know. Someone just gave me some SS material and this was a short piece I had in the box. Didn't think it was critical, but if someone wants something special, that shouldn't be a problem if I can get the 3/8" round stock.
Quote from: Marlinmate on February 20, 2011, 12:58:20 AM
From a collector's view....Put that 16/0 on a shelf and look at it. Don't fish it and get it all corroded.
For some people, reels are prizes in and of themselves. For me, they're just tools, and tools are meant to be used.
Quote from: alantani on March 04, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
i'm thinking that the next run of gear sleeves should have more teeth. great post!
More teeth is great as long as it doesn't reduce the strength so much that it defeats the purpose. I think Penn over-engineered it as I've never seen any broken ones (badly worn, but not broken). On the other hand, I have seen quite a few stripped gears, and the sleeves were fine on those.
That pin looks awesome, you're right about the sleeve being to loose, pin or sleeve needs to be adjusted ...if you guys come through with it.
Wow! I see a lot of talent here.
Very nice Albert ;)!
If we can get someone to cut out the plate, and Makule or Keta to make the pins I would be more than happy to weld a set of them up..as long as I get one or two to keep for myself ;D
This is a beginner question, so thanks for your patience ahead of time.
I noticed that on this beautiful 16/0 rebuild - under the stainless gear sleeve a metal washer was used instead of a carbon washer. On all the other Tutorials with Ht-100 upgrades that I've looked at a carbon washer was used. I'm curiously wondering why a carbon washer wasn't used, and if a carbon washer was used - would it have helped strengthen the drag? Is a carbon washer even necessary? Again, not trying to pick - just trying to learn.
This is a beautifully done rebuild! Thanks for the detailed picks and all the helpful comments.
Looks like he used it under the gear sleeve, that is just to keep it from moving up and down so much.The washer your thinking about would go on top of the gear sleeve and under the main gear, it should be a ht100.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 06, 2012, 03:26:58 AM
Looks like he used it under the gear sleeve, that is just to keep it from moving up and down so much.The washer your thinking about would go on top of the gear sleeve and under the main gear, it should be a ht100.
The washer the Sal put in was to reduce the slop (up and down play) between the shaft and the sleeve. The sleeve or shaft can be worn (likely because of inadequate or improper grease) and, depending on which it is, would need to be replaced to get it back to the way it should be. In Sal's case, he was clever enough to just put an inexpensive washer to solve the problem.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 06, 2012, 02:04:08 AM
If we can get someone to cut out the plate, and Makule or Keta to make the pins I would be more than happy to weld a set of them up..as long as I get one or two to keep for myself ;D
I can cut the shaft, and it would only need to be pressed on as I described earlier.
Someone (don't care who) still needs to send me a mailing address so I can send the shaft someplace.
You can send it to me, will pm you. I just don't want it to go to waste/ get lost since you took the time to make it and it may be a while untill I can finish it.
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 06, 2012, 04:25:36 AM
You can send it to me, will pm you. I just don't want it to go to waste/ get lost since you took the time to make it and it may be a while untill I can finish it.
OK
Quote from: redsetta on March 05, 2012, 04:57:14 PM
That's some class work Lee.
It's turning into a great thread.
Cheers, Justin
What are you saying Justin. This thread was kind of boring in the beginning? ;D ;D
Hi -
I'm in the middle of the rebuild for my 118, and got stumped. Is the stand supposed to be flat across the bottom, except for the smallish concave portion where it fits on the rod?
To explain, mine has a bow across the entire bottom part (imagine as if someone had dropped it while still on the rod and the weight of the reel had bent/pushed the entire foot upward/inward a little). I found a clamp & screws in the extra-parts box that came with everything and it's waaay too big for any of the other reels so I'm assuming it's for the 118, but its spacing is wider than the holes in the stand for the 118.
'Alan's Awesome Tutorial' 118 photo makes it look like it may not have the overall concave on the bottom, but I wanted to verify before I got out the sledge and started wailing on it. And if I flatten out the stand, I'm not sure if the wider dimension will fit between the plates then.
Maybe if someone could post the spacing between the clamp screw-holes that would clarify it for me, please?
Hello Dogdad1, yes the stand is supposed to be flat across the bottom, except for the concave that sits on the rod. How much of a bow do you have? If you place a straightedge accross it, mesure right before the concave. I have seen a few on smaller reels and was able to straighten them out somewhat, but I've never seen it on a 16/0. You need to be careful not to domage it, that stand is close to impossible to find, I would probably take it somewere. If I had one I wouldn't sell it for less than $150, just to give you an idea on how valuable it is. Here are some dimentions, bolt to bolt ( center to center ) is 2 3/4", appr. 71mm and the thickness is a full 1/8", appr. 4mm. Good luck with it, if it is only 1/16" and it doesn't interfere with the spool, I would let it go.
I took my question to a new thread, so as to not drag this tutorial off-topic.
Thanks,
Ron
Did somebody know how to put off the click tongue for replace a broken one ?
You will have to grind or drill the rivet off to remove the click tongue. You will also need a new click button when you change it. Bob
Welcome, Jean-Pierre!
It is much easier now to replace the clicker on the 9/0, no need to peen it.
Do as Bob mentioned above., if you're not comfortable drilling the rivet, grind it down and use a punch to get it out.
Once out, replace it with these parts:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36-115L2.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36-115L2.aspx)
You will also need part #35-115 and part #69B-4400.
Enjoy your stay.
Sal
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish Ladies,
Farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain;
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston
'And we may never see you fair ladies again...
(http://www.proparchives.com/components/com_mtree/img/listings/m/11081.jpg)
http://www.proparchives.com/action/action-films-1970s/jaws/fishing-rod-reel-from-quints-boat-in-jaws (http://www.proparchives.com/action/action-films-1970s/jaws/fishing-rod-reel-from-quints-boat-in-jaws)
I'd love to have this on my wall...
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
/Karl
Hey Alto Mare, I tried PMing you but I don why it doesn't let me do that. Maybe I'm to new here. I saw this build and I wanted to see if you could help me out with sourcing a SS bridge and the washer plates and carbon fiber washers for me? You can try and PM me if you want but I cant lol...
Thank You
Hello Adrian, yes I did get your dozen emails, well actually only three ;D. I have a day job and usually only get on after 4:00pm, sometimes at 12:00 pm when I decide to come home for lunch. I'm waiting for Alan to hire me full time so I could stay on all day ;D.
About the washers, you could get them here:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-117.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-117.aspx), as stated, you will need (7) total.
If you need metal as well these are at a good price:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/7C-117.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/7C-117.aspx)
You could also get the washers here, from Dawn:
SmoothDrag.com
About the bridge, we do not have a stainless steel bridge available for that reel, maybe in the future, but not now. I do believe that you meant the stainless steel gear sleeve, if so, those should be available soon, by Tom, you could get some details here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13225.msg132621#msg132621 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13225.msg132621#msg132621)
I hope this is of some help.
Sal
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
LoL it wasn't showing me that the message was being delivered😬. Yea I meant the gear sleeve. I will checkup on the links. Thanks Sal
Adrian
What size HT-100 is used under the new stainless main gear? Is it the 6-116? I assume since the 118 and 116L share the same stock under gear fiber washer?
Ty
Quote from: williewiskers on February 17, 2020, 06:41:35 PM
What size HT-100 is used under the new stainless main gear? Is it the 6-116? I assume since the 118 and 116L share the same stock under gear fiber washer?
Ty
Willie, there is no need for you to post the same question at different areas on the site.
Give it a day or two and someone will usually always answer your question.
The hard fiber washer has a different part #, but you are correct, the 4-116 will work on both, the 116 and 118.
About the carbon fiber washer for under the main gear.
This thread is 9 years old and things do change along the way, as we move along.
I now believe that a Delrin washer would do a much better job there, instead of the carbon fiber washer.
To me this would be on all reels and not just the 118.
With that said, some don't agree with me, they believe a carbon fiber washer for under the gear is a better choice... I leave that up to you as you test it for yourself.
Your next question would probably be where to get the Delrin washer and I have no idea if anyone is offering those, I usually punch my own.
I am getting a little tired making washers for members, I've done many so far for about 5 years, but if you're having a hard time finding one, send me your address on a PM and I'll get one out to you.
I just received a box with a request to cut close to 200 washers of all different sizes.
Please don't anyone do that to someone that is trying to help by offering a couple.
This wasn't the gentleman fault, he had no idea that those would take about 3 hours to complete.
He did want to pay for them, but I told him not to... all is good.
Good luck to you.
Sal
Your a good man SAL, true OHANA, 200 in 3 hours, it would take me two days, cheers Don.
Alto,
Thanks. I only copied the question because I saw the other thread later from the same author and the first post said, "post questions about this reel here". I had assumed the other post wasn't followed. I don't know anything about delran, never used it or heard of it. I usually use the stock fiber washer under the main gear. With my 118 I am getting the Cortez SS sleeve, dog and the HT-100 stack. I was under the impression that adding the CF drag under the main gear gave you a little more drag - which I could handle between a steel main gear and a new stainless steel sleeve.
What is the properties of delran that make it your preferred choice under the main gear?
Sorry for the double post.
Ty
The Wiskers
Quote from: williewiskers on February 18, 2020, 07:13:54 PM
Alto,
Thanks. I only copied the question because I saw the other thread later from the same author and the first post said, "post questions about this reel here". I had assumed the other post wasn't followed. I don't know anything about delran, never used it or heard of it. I usually use the stock fiber washer under the main gear. With my 118 I am getting the Cortez SS sleeve, dog and the HT-100 stack. I was under the impression that adding the CF drag under the main gear gave you a little more drag - which I could handle between a steel main gear and a new stainless steel sleeve.
What is the properties of delran that make it your preferred choice under the main gear?
Sorry for the double post.
Ty
The Wiskers
Not a problem on the double post,I forgot all about the other section.
The main reason I prefer a Delrin washer over the carbon fiber washer for under the gear is smoothness.
I'm a strong believer that the washer for under the gear should function as a ball bearing, while allowing the carbon fiber washers in the gear work as smooth as possible.
I guess the best answer would be for you to try both and send which one works best for you.
Sal
Good to know with the delran. In the case of the 16/0, drag is its weakness. Its strength was capacity. The upgrade parts should safely allow it to close SOME of that disparity gap between its size and its drag tension. So, by my own ignorant logic, I am reasoning going with the power-option first would be the best move.
I saw in the tutorial there was a C.F. used under the main gear with the caption, "like Alan says to do", but I havent found a tutorial on the site from Alan, nor does Mystic customer support list a C.F. alternate part. In an email they said they get that information reported from people on here and that they have no record of being advised of the alternate washer part number.
???
Quote from: williewiskers on February 19, 2020, 12:46:27 AM
Good to know with the delran. In the case of the 16/0, drag is its weakness. Its strength was capacity. The upgrade parts should safely allow it to close SOME of that disparity gap between its size and its drag tension. So, by my own ignorant logic, I am reasoning going with the power-option first would be the best move.
I saw in the tutorial there was a C.F. used under the main gear with the caption, "like Alan says to do", but I havent found a tutorial on the site from Alan, nor does Mystic customer support list a C.F. alternate part. In an email they said they get that information reported from people on here and that they have no record of being advised of the alternate washer part number.
???
If you're going that rout, just add one of the washer you're using in the gear for under the gear.
Don't fool yourself on the 16/0 not having enough drag.
Taking everything in consideration... spool size, gear size, 1.5 to 1 ratio, you won't find a better winch.
Sal
Mystic customer support said there was a problem with the thickness of the HT-100 not being sufficient to allow the dog to function freely. That the original fiber washer was thicker than the drag washer and using a 6-116 (or equivalent) wouldnt allow the dog the move. The thickness of the 6-116 and 6-117 is the same - i believe.
Sorry to drag this out. I have to wait until I have $100 in parts to place a mystic order, so i dont want to get it wrong - ill be waiting awhile if I do.
Ty
Quote from: williewiskers on February 20, 2020, 12:04:44 AM
Mystic customer support said there was a problem with the thickness of the HT-100 not being sufficient to allow the dog to function freely. That the original fiber washer was thicker than the drag washer and using a 6-116 (or equivalent) wouldnt allow the dog the move. The thickness of the 6-116 and 6-117 is the same - i believe.
Sorry to drag this out. I have to wait until I have $100 in parts to place a mystic order, so i dont want to get it wrong - ill be waiting awhile if I do.
Ty
I have a couple of pieces here, I could make you a carbon fiber washer, or a Delrin... your call.
Your cost is nothing.
I do want to mention again that I prefer a Delrin washer there.
Sal
Sal,
Ive gotten enough beaming endorsement on your expertise in this area and this is my first 118, ill yield to your obvious expertise and go with the delrin. I can see how a smooth bearing-type material under the main gear would be more beneficial than a possible small amount of drag increase - especially when the drag star is running close to its mechanical tension limit. I am going to fish this reel so i want it to be as capable as possible.
Thank you!
Ive only been into rebuilding reels for about a year, but in that time Ive built my boat's fishing arsenal out of flea market and yard sale reels - all diagnosed, repaired and upgraded from info on here. This 16/0 I won in a raffle if you believe it!
Thanks again
Sal,
Your washers arrived in the mail today, they're beautiful. I can see why you recommend them. They have a very low surface tension and no measurable compressibility.
Thanks you so much for helping me make my 16/0 the best it can be!
The Wiskers (Chris)
I'm glad they made it to you Chris!
Fish that reel and see how it goes for you.
Since you got that 16/0 at a very good price, it might be a good idea as some point to send it over for some additional upgrades.
When that time comes, you will be charged for parts only, labor would be on me.
Here is an idea on what could be done to the 16/0:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20189.msg217343#msg217343
Have a great evening.
Sal
Quote from: williewiskers on February 20, 2020, 12:55:37 AM
I can see how a smooth bearing-type material under the main gear would be more beneficial than a possible small amount of drag increase - especially when the drag star is running close to its mechanical tension limit. I am going to fish this reel so i want it to be as capable as possible.
I agree with Sal on these big Senators when it comes to the under gear washer. I sometimes use a carbon fiber under the gear on small reels to gain a bit of top end, but on a big Senator there are more drag washers,
big washers, with enough power to shred carbon fiber under the gear to ribbons. Especially on a long run. You'll appreciate this set up knowing it won't fail when you need it most. 8)
Its time to do new drag washers so was thinking about ordering SS gear sleeves and dogs for the 14/0 and 16/0 from Cortez Conversions. I know its not the Super 16 in your shark tank reel, but wanted to make sure it wasn't a waste to do this little upgrade or there was any known problems with them. I was actually considering going to Cortez SS sleeves and dogs on the 2x 12/0's and 2x 9/0's as well. I chose Cortez based on the alloy they use, 440SS (heat treated) - which has more strength and hardness than other's 316SS sleeves. I reasoned it would provide the best protection to the threads on the sleeve when putting pressure on it with the star.
Anything I should know, or am I good to go?
Also just found out the person whom I bought my 14 and 16/0 from found ANOTHER pair of them in his father's stuff (I think he's found 4 of each at this point!). He's going to keep the last one of each so that when we go out together we will have a full spread of 14-16/0's. Whatever I do to mine, he'll want done to his to match.
Ty
Cortez drags,,,,maybe wasn't the problem,,,,, ??? I just got uncle sal to put them in my 4/0 a couple of months ago,,,,, ;) on the shark tanks drag not broken in and the goliath grouper looked like a Russian sub on the sonar,,,,,, :D maybe I pushed the drag to far,,,,,, :-\ because the 9/0 holds up against anything and is smooth,,,,,,, ;D
And I thought "uncle sal" was going to get mad ,,,,, >:( but no he just laughed,,,,,,, :D if I made it and you can break it,,,,,,,, ;D