Hi All,
What a great site, full of valuable information. I need help figuring out what's wrong with a reel. I got an old penn113h from craigslist that was a really good deal . it's the kind with the thick drag washers that you can access from the outside. After cleaning it and putting it together I found that that the spool is wobbling left and right even though the left knob is tight all the way. When I crank the handle then stop it, the spool would keep going while clicking from the right side. I checked the schematics but cannot figure out what is missing . Any advice?
that is normal. it's just something that you would never see when the reel has line on it and you're fishing.
oh, and welcome!!!!!
Quote from: alantani on May 16, 2015, 01:11:40 AM
oh, and welcome!!!!!
Thanks Alan. Your blog is a treasure man, really enjoying it.
Quote from: alantani on May 16, 2015, 01:10:46 AM
that is normal. it's just something that you would never see when the reel has line on it and you're fishing.
None of my other penn reels do that though including my 113. could it be missing a washer or something? it literally goes into one directional free spool after stop cranking.
I suspect the side plats are swollen so that they are too wide on the spool. I see this fairly frequently on older Penn reels. If that is the problem, there's nothing you can do short of replacing the side plates.
As I have been told. Pictures will help.
Here are some pictures of the inside of the reel.(//)
more pictures
more pics
Excellent pictures castamile. It look to me like you are missing something in the adjustable bearing.
Here is a pic of an older 113H with the bearing removed.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2914_zpsm52wgmz2.jpg)
There is no side to side spool play when installed.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2915_zpshpgmdlmh.jpg)
Hi castamile, if the spool has side to side play the threads on the left bearing might be dirty or damaged and not allowing you to adjust the bearing in far enough to take out all the free play. You should be able to adjust the bearing inward till there is barely any side play. Clean the threads & try again. RUDY
Thank you for the reply with pictures Shark Hunter. Any suggestion what could be missing from the left side bearing? is there any part that goes inside the knob( besides the bearing)? from your picture it looks like your bearing knob is identical to mine.
Thank you Rowdy - I just tried that now and lubed the knob well. I believe I screwed it in pretty deep till there is almost nothing to hold on to. unfortunately that didn't change much.
I shoved a piece of rubber in the knob whole in order to push against the spool a bit and it made a bit of a difference. there is a still a wobble but less than before. now I have to figure out how I'm gonna get it out :D
castamile, is it possible that the spool moves to far to the right (handle side)? Then the problem might be with the right bearing being damaged or the end of the spool is worn. One way to center up the spool is to either replace the bearing or spool or both. Another way is to get a soda or beer can & cut a small piece of aluminum to fit in the right bearing to shift the spool to the left. You might need more then one shim. Are you talking about side to side play or do you mean wobble by a crooked spool? RUDY
Castamile, from looking at you pics i'm going to guess its your right side bearing. It could also be something else as mentioned above, but that bearing doesn't look right to me.
Assemble the reel and using your hand move the spool to the right ( handle side ), if you see a gap on the opposite side, your right side bearing and probably the bearing cup are bad.
The spool should be centered, having the same space on both sides, if a shim in needed, do as Rudy mentioned.
I don't like to use aluminum, I usually use a piece of stainless steel from shimming material.
Sal
The gap is actually on the right side. Moving the spool to the right results in closing the gap. adding that rubber shim to the left bearing knob pushes the spool to the right and closes the gap. any concerns on adding and keeping a rubber piece to the left knob?
Like I said the pictures help a great deal. I'm not the expert here but it sure looks like that left side bushing is shot. I know this sounds like hind site however when you were talking about tightening that let side spool tensioner adjustment and nothing improved, I wanted to say I have never heard of that happening simply because that is used to slow the rotation of the spool and always has lots of adjustment.
If you had another known good reel to switch out parts with -- you could likely get the solution.
I suspect (1) bad bearing, or both. Although it is likely the right side.
And then clean up the spool ends with a little fine Emory tape, "0000" steel wool, and Never-Dull.
About a month ago I had a similar issue -- and knew all parts were in place properly -- after having the reel back apart a couple of times -- I switched out the spool as a last resort -- and that took care of the issue.
Funny thing, the old spool looked perfect -- but was somehow tweaked at the end.
Good luck,
Fred
It's not used to slow the rotation of the spool, it is only used to support the spool & as an adjustment for side play of the spool. Using it as a drag to limit free spool is a sure way to ruin the bearings. It is not a cast control. The problem is the RIGHT bearing because the left bearing adjustment knob was probably used as a cast control at one time. This reel does NOT have bushings it has ball bearings.
Quote from: RowdyW on May 26, 2015, 12:43:52 AM
It's not used to slow the rotation of the spool, it is only used to support the spool & as an adjustment for side play of the spool. Using it as a drag to limit free spool is a sure way to ruin the bearings. It is not a cast control. The problem is the RIGHT bearing because the left bearing adjustment knob was probably used as a cast control at one time. This reel does NOT have bushings it has ball bearings.
I hate to disagree with you on the adjusting screw but even the reel manufactures tell you to adjust tension on the spool adjustment just enough to slow the drop of the plug or weight so it doesn't free fall to the ground, I'm not suggesting that someone crank that adjustment down to its max. I have been doing that for years and have never had a problem with wear, but again I don't get gorilla on it either.
Maybe on a reel that has a cast control but not on a Special Senator. Better reread the instructions from Penn.
I only tightened the screw all the way when I was testing if this was the problem. that didn't help.
To summarize what I gather is cause of the problem either:
1- left side bearing:
->could it be the screw itself?
2- right side bearing :
-> my guess is that's unlikely based on the fact that the gap is on the right side. which means that the left side is not pushing the spool enough to fill the gap. also that might explain the clicking noise after cranking as I think the spool is hitting the pinion gear and not sitting all the way in.
3- the spool is faulty:
a-> could be the shaft is broken or missing a piece
b-> shaft is bent. unlikely since it doesn't seem bent visually. but I could be wrong.
Quote from: foakes on May 26, 2015, 12:39:06 AM
If you had another known good reel to switch out parts with -- you could likely get the solution.
Agree I wish I had another reel to switch parts with to pin down the problem.
To rule out option 3 - a, could someone please provide measurements for the length of the spool shaft on both sides of the spool. from the point of contact with the cylindrical part(spool) till the end.
Quote from: RowdyW on May 26, 2015, 02:08:51 AM
Maybe on a reel that has a cast control but not on a Special Senator. Better reread the instructions from Penn.
Yes you are right in as the penn senators are specific for large game fish and not designed for casting plugs or light bait. Thanks for straightening me out.
Typically, a spool will not wear short on the end shafts -- so my confidence is low that it can be diagnosed that way -- I could be wrong.
If you don't make any headway -- consider just sending me the reel.
I will check it out, switch out any parts necessary, document with pics what we discover -- then get it back to you right away -- serviced and ready to go.
Then we will all learn something -- instead of guessing.
No Charge on any parts or service -- just glad to help.
If you decide to go this route -- PM me and I will give you my mailing address.
Best,
Fred
Thank you foakes for the kind offer. I think I figured it out. Something must have been missing from the left side screw. When I shuved a piece of rubber in there and tightened the screw it created the necessary pressure on the left side to balance the spool. I'll see how that holds. I might take your offer later if that proved to be wrong.
Thanks again everybody
Will post an update with the results.
Quote from: castamile on May 28, 2015, 06:45:41 AM
Thank you foakes for the kind offer. I think I figured it out. Something must have been missing from the left side screw. When I shuved a piece of rubber in there and tightened the screw it created the necessary pressure on the left side to balance the spool. I'll see how that holds. I might take your offer later if that proved to be wrong.
Thanks again everybody
Will post an update with the results.
Not for nothing,but I think you should take Fred up on his offer. I say that because a piece of rubber stuffed into where ever is not going to solve the problem in the long run.
Hi castamile --
Glad you are making progress.
Offer still goes anytime -- or you can learn quite a bit more by working on it, as you are doing.
If you are intending to fish the reel -- it should be brought up to proper snuff -- otherwise you will just be waiting for the clever makeshift fix to fail.
And a failure may occur when you have a monster fish on the line.
A general rule is to never assume -- instead: listen, observe, investigate, correct issues -- complete job, and you move on ahead to the next patient. Do the same procedure every time -- and pretty soon you will be teaching us!
It is likely the left bearing -- but there might also be other parts worn or needing replacement. The rubber shim up of the left bearing may put the spool in place -- but it could also be the right bearing, or?
Glad for your progress.
Best,
Fred
Fred is so much more eloquent with his response then I was ::)
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 25, 2015, 05:11:35 PM
Castamile, from looking at you pics i'm going to guess its your right side bearing. It could also be something else as mentioned above, but that bearing doesn't look right to me.
Assemble the reel and using your hand move the spool to the right ( handle side ), if you see a gap on the opposite side, your right side bearing and probably the bearing cup are bad.
The spool should be centered, having the same space on both sides, if a shim in needed, do as Rudy mentioned.
I don't like to use aluminum, I usually use a piece of stainless steel from shimming material.
Sal
I agree with Sal, i will also add, you are supposed to have some
play in a spool once properly centered.
Take out bearings put them in a jar of lighter fuel for 10-15 minutes,
take out and dry off on kitchen roll, then add two small drops of
red rocket fuel, please do not grease bearings as it basically is not
needed like some might think it is.
Now before you put those bearings back in place test them
on the long end of a screw driver and they should run smoothly,
if not throw then in the bin.
Remember to center the spool. ;)
Any chance the non-handle bearing is the wrong part? I've bought a few 114s off the internet that had the wrong part in there but it didn't allow play in the spool like yours. I have a Senator 117 that has some spool play that I noticed. I was going to try and fix it this week. I'll let you know if I figure anything out.
I've seen a few 14/0's with lots of side way play with the spool, those will definitely need shims, some will take a few.
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 30, 2015, 03:17:37 AM
I've seen a few 14/0's with lots of side way play with the spool, those will definitely need shims, some will take a few.
Thanks Sal. I don't want to hijack this thread but do you happen to know what size? Mcmaster-Carr I presume?
Try here:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/154-117.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/154-117.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 30, 2015, 10:07:56 AM
Try here:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/154-117.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/154-117.aspx)
Thanks a lot Sal.