http://www.ebay.com/itm/Penn-Reels-High-Speed-Gears-for-Penn-500-501-and-Penn-112H-Main-Pinion-/190892144283?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c720ef69b
seller is new, no score, description of the product leaves many questions
Pinion looks a little fishy, familiar finish almost
The gears look straight while the pinion looks helical, it does look a little fishy and so does the price.
Saw it today...didn't even think about it for some reason...I'm waiting for Alan to come out with his gears. I still need to check out Dawn's gears, but been a bit busy.
If it seems too good to be true, It usually is.
I wouldn't roll those dice Joel. ;D
I think this is the same gear set that Dawn is selling. By looking at the main gear, it is not for JM500/501 nor 112H. It is for JM505.
It can be fitted into the JM 500 or 112H with some modification on the sideplate.
Then again, what do I know?????? ;)
Does not quite look the same as Dawns gear- especially the pinion, the teeth within the collar of the pinion, and edges of teeth inside the groove for the yoke. Metal quality does not look the same either.
Main gear has 58 teeth. From what I can see of the pinion, I'm guessing 12 which would make it 4.83:1, consistent with a Penn 505/506. Penn replacement 505/506 gears have a brass main gear and s/s pinion. It could be an early gear set, but .... ???
Newell 5:1 Jigmaster gears are 5:1. Did Accurate ever make a set of gears for Jigmasters?
Quote from: Black Pearl on August 28, 2013, 11:16:41 AM
I think this is the same gear set that Dawn is selling. By looking at the main gear, it is not for JM500/501 nor 112H. It is for JM505.
It can be fitted into the JM 500 or 112H with some modification on the sideplate.
Then again, what do I know?????? ;)
You're right, Alan. The pinion needs to be drilled out to 3/16" to fit the JM spool shaft, too.
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on August 28, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Main gear has 58 teeth. From what I can see of the pinion, I'm guessing 12 which would make it 4.83:1, consistent with a Penn 505/506. Penn replacement 505/506 gears have a brass main gear and s/s pinion. It could be an early gear set, but .... ???
Newell 5:1 Jigmaster gears are 5:1. Did Accurate ever make a set of gears for Jigmasters?
Accurate did make a gears set for JM 500, but they discontinued it after awhile because those teeth on the gears were too thin and striped under heavy pressure. I guess they did not want to do a recall. That was what I heard. The Accurate JM 500 gear set were 4.8:1, but it was sold as 5:1.
Hi Guys
That's the Co. I am getting the Newell gears from.
He is also now making the 500/112H
Dawn
Quote from: Dawn on August 28, 2013, 07:22:37 PM
Hi Guys
That's the Co. I am getting the Newell gears from.
He is also now making the 500/112H
Dawn
They lower their price on Ebay. Bad.......
We will be having a chat....
Quote from: Dawn on August 28, 2013, 07:22:37 PM
Hi Guys
That's the Co. I am getting the Newell gears from.
He is also now making the 500/112H
Dawn
Since your resource is making the JM500/112H, you won't have to carry mine when it is ready. ;)
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on August 28, 2013, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: Black Pearl on August 28, 2013, 11:16:41 AM
I think this is the same gear set that Dawn is selling. By looking at the main gear, it is not for JM500/501 nor 112H. It is for JM505.
It can be fitted into the JM 500 or 112H with some modification on the sideplate.
Then again, what do I know?????? ;)
You're right, Alan. The pinion needs to be drilled out to 3/16" to fit the JM spool shaft, too.
Yes you're right Rob, but on that particular set no drilling was required.
The pinion fit on the 500 nice and snug, much better that Penn's and it was jus a little loose on the 505 and I mean a little.
The gear set is cut to perfection, I had to sand down Alan's sleeve to be able to slide the main gear all the way down.
The problem wasn't with the gear, the sleeve was a little wider at the base from the top.
Alan's sleeve are usually ok, but on this gear set you will need to do some sanding, unless they enlarge the inner hole a little.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 28, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
If it seems too good to be true, It usually is.
I wouldn't roll those dice Joel. ;D
I guess that doesn't apply now!
See, Fleabay can be really good some times. ;D
Quote from: Dawn on August 28, 2013, 07:22:37 PM
Hi Guys
That's the Co. I am getting the Newell gears from.
He is also now making the 500/112H
Dawn
Dawn,
If you are carrying those as well, could you send me a set to confirm fitment...and charge my account?
Thanks
Bryan
P.S. I'd better find reels to install these gears or I'm going to be a gear head. ;D
So I guess they're ok. Good to know, but not good that he's undercutting Dawn. Smooth Drag! I wouldn't bid.
Thanks Floating Doc ;D
I will get it worked out with him.
Bryan sent you a message.
Dawn
Seller responded to my question from when they first listed "Hi The gears are made by global precision in Taiwan. The parts are stainless steel 304 and are passivated?
Thank you."
These look different to me than what Dawn is offering- the finish looks weird
I had to look up "passivated" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivation_(chemistry)
and some great info on stainless in marine environments here: http://www.dieselduck.net/machine/04%20auxiliary/corrosion.htm
"When buying stainless steels, some companies claim that they passivate them. What is passivation, why is it done, and does it make the stainless steel corrode less?
When a stainless steel is passivated, it is put into a bath of an oxidizing acid, such as nitric acid. Stainless steels get their corrosion resistance from the formation of a very thin corrosion product film of uncertain composition called the passive film. It was observed that when stainless steels were first treated with an oxidizing acid, they would later appear to corrode less than if they had not been treated. It was thought that the oxidizing acid somehow thickened the passive film on the stainless steel to make the steel more corrosion resistant. Therefore, the treatment was called passivation. We now know that this treatment doesn't affect the passive film in a way that lasts very long in water. The film will stabilize at the same thickness when exposed to the same water whether or not passiviation has been done. Then why do stainless steels appear to corrode less after passivation? The oxidizing acid treatment is essentially a cleaning process that removes small particles of iron and other impurities that have gotten on the surface of the stainless steel during the rolling process, or are in the structure of the stainless steel itself and happen to be protruding from the surface. These particles corrode in waters that normally don't corrode stainless steels, leaving behind rust or other corrosion products that are readily visible. It looks like the stainless steel is corroding when, in fact, it is only the surface particles that corrode. Cleaning these particles off with the acid treatment means that they will not later corrode and leave behind ugly rust spots. It therefore seems that the stainless steel is corroding less. Some people believe that surface particle corrosion can start pitting corrosion, but controlled tests show that pitting will still happen even if all of these particles are removed.
The reason for the passivation treatment now becomes clear. It makes the stainless steel look prettier after it has been exposed to the water for a while. It actually doesn't affect the corrosion of the stainless steel itself, however. The treatment is fairly cheap, and usually doesn't hurt anything, so manufacturers usually go ahead and do it, just to avoid later questions about "rust" spots forming on their stainless steel. Passivation can be a problem for parts with tight crevices that can trap the acid used. Over time, these acids can cause crevice corrosion. For parts without crevices, passivation does have a benefit if the stainless steel is to be given some later treatment for which a clean surface is necessary. For example, it is prudent to use passivation before painting or plating over the stainless steel."
Have any of you wondered why one Stainless is selected over another.
For example, I've heard that 301 is stronger than 304 but a a little less corrosion resistant. 316 has better corrosion resistance and has similar strength as 304...
These are things that I had to look at for creating my drag stacks, but not sure how the considerations would apply to gears.
I selected 301 stainless due to it's strength, and figure that the carbon fiber washers will be greased, so will have a low probablility of rust interfering with the drag system since many of us here actually service our own reels or have someone that service them to at least to the same caliber as Alan Tani does.
Quote from: Joel.B on August 30, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
Seller responded to my question from when they first listed "Hi The gears are made by global precision in Taiwan. The parts are stainless steel 304 and are passivated?
Thank you."
These look different to me than what Dawn is offering- the finish looks weird
I had to look up "passivated" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivation_(chemistry)
The gear in the picture is for JM 505.
What is JM? The only time I saw JM referred to Jigging Master.
Read this Bryan, just found it, great info http://www.dieselduck.net/machine/04%20auxiliary/corrosion.htm
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 30, 2013, 05:19:47 PM
Have any of you wondered why one Stainless is selected over another.
For example, I've heard that 301 is stronger than 304 but a a little less corrosion resistant. 316 has better corrosion resistance and has similar strength as 304...
These are things that I had to look at for creating my drag stacks, but not sure how the considerations would apply to gears.
I selected 301 stainless due to it's strength, and figure that the carbon fiber washers will be greased, so will have a low probablility of rust interfering with the drag system since many of us here actually service our own reels or have someone that service them to at least to the same caliber as Alan Tani does.
My resource told me that 316 has better strength 304. The price for the material is 50% difference.
Most tackle manufacturer like to use SS 303 because it is cheaper than 316 or 304.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 30, 2013, 05:23:15 PM
What is JM? The only time I saw JM referred to Jigging Master.
My bad JigMaster 505
http://www.dieselduck.net/machine/04%20auxiliary/corrosion.htm
Corrosion of Stainless Steels
Aside from steel, stainless steels are the most common construction metals. There are many different types of stainless steels, divided into five major categories by crystal structure type. The austenitic stainless steel alloys, with AISI numbers from 200 to 399, are usually nonmagnetic. The alloys with numbers of 300 or above contain more nickel than those with numbers below 300, and have better seawater resistance. These 300-series alloys are very corrosion resistant, and are used for architectural applications, boat topside fittings, and household goods such as sinks and silverware. The 300-series alloys will usually show no appreciable corrosion in fresh water or sea atmosphere. The 400-series ferritic and the martensitic alloys are usually magnetic, stronger, and less corrosion resistant than the austenitic alloys. They are used for knife blades and certain hand tools. These alloys will sometimes suffer from mild surface rusting when exposed to fresh water or sea atmosphere. Duplex and precipitation hardenable stainless steels are specialty alloys. Some are very strong and not very corrosion resistant, such as 17-4PH, and others have intermediate strength and corrosion resistance between the austenitic and the ferritic or martensitic alloys. There are some specialty alloys that are very corrosion resistant because they add more special elements to the alloy, and are consequently somewhat more expensive than standard grades, such as the austenitic 6XN.
Stainless steels get their corrosion resistance by the formation of a very thin surface film, called the passive film, which forms on the surface in the presence of oxygen. Therefore, stainless steels usually have poor corrosion resistance in low-oxygen environments, such as under deposits, in mud, or in tight places, called crevices, where structures or hardware are attached. This is particularly true in seawater, where the chlorides from the salt will attack and destroy the passive film faster than it can reform in low oxygen areas. All of the stainless steels except the best of the specialty alloys will suffer from pitting or crevice corrosion when immersed in seawater. One of the best 300-series stainless steels is type 316. Even this alloy will, if unprotected, start corroding under soft washers, in o-ring grooves, or any other tight crevice area in as little as one day, and it is not unusual to have penetration of a tenth of an inch in a crevice area after only 30 days in seawater. If water flows fast past a stainless steel, more oxygen is delivered to the stainless steel and it corrodes less. For this reason, stainless steels have been successfully used for impeller blades and propellers. These need to be protected from corrosion when there is no flow.
Painting stainless steels usually does not stop the crevice corrosion; it will occur any place where there is a scratch or nick in the paint. For this reason, I usually recommend against using any stainless steel except certain specialty alloys in seawater for more than a few hours at a time. There is a strong tendency to use in seawater the same materials that work well in fresh water or sea atmosphere, so that types 303, 304, and 316 stainless steel are often used for undersea applications. They will also usually fail if the exposure is long enough, unless they are in continuous solid electrical contact with a material that will provide them with cathodic protection such as steel or aluminum. As soon as the electrical contact is broken, the steel will corrode.
Crevice corrosion of stainless steels happens irregularly, but when it occurs it is very destructive. For example, if 10 stainless steel screws are put in a plate in seawater, it may be that all but one will be un-attacked, as bright and shiny as the day they were made. That one screw, however, may well have attack over one quarter inch deep in only a few months. The attack will occur in crevices where it can't be seen, and will destroy the screw from the inside out. This is because the corrosion starts inside the crevice between the screw and the metal, where it can't be seen, then proceeds inside the metal where there is no oxygen, sometimes hollowing out the part or giving it the appearance of Swiss cheese.
Even the best of stainless steels may have its corrosion resistance affected by the way it is made. For example, 316 stainless steel is very corrosion resistant in fresh water, but when it is welded, the areas next to the welds experience a thermal cycle that can cause that material to corrode. This is called sensitization, and can lead to the appearance of knife-line attack next to welds. This is why certain heat treatments should be avoided with this and similar alloys. On the other hand, a low-carbon version of 316, called 316L, will not be sensitized, and can be welded with little effect on corrosion properties.
Austenitic stainless steels can suffer from stress corrosion cracking to various degrees when fully immersed in seawater. Stress corrosion cracking is cracking without much metal loss in the presence of a continuous applied load in the environment. If a susceptible material fails by cracking and has numerous side cracks besides the one causing the failure, stress corrosion cracking should be suspected. The ferritic and duplex stainless steels usually do not have this problem.
Very interesting... Thanks Joel and Alan.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 30, 2013, 06:15:05 PM
Very interesting... Thanks Joel and Alan.
There is one most important element when making fishing tackle gear set that it is expertise in fishing tackle. Just because a company has some machines to make gear set, it does not mean that it can make fishing gear set. There are a lot of thing going on in the back ground. You can not just send a gear set (eg, an Accurate) and has it copies by the shop. The shop needs to revert engineering the gear set and see if there is any improvements it can be made. When the gear set parts are finished, it must be tested and make sure all parts can be replaced the OEM parts without any alternation (simply is opening reel, removing OEM parts, installing replacement parts, greasing replacement parts, closing reel and ready for fishing).
You won't see any big company (PENN or Shimano) will ask any factory to make gears parts for it. Those companies know where they are. Trust me on that one.
Joels post is why silicone bronze, or especially monel, is preferred in boat building. Stainless will fail if continously submerged.
Ron
Well, someone just bought 5 sets from the ebay seller.
This seller (the same guy sold to Dawn at smooth drag) dropped the price like crazy. It is $29.95 while Charkbait is selling the same set for $39.99. It is a bargain.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190895781428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190895781428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)
I would like to know if anyone bought from him. If so, can you tell us if it is ok.
My take on it: I haven't tried them and by now you know my thoughts on where I would buy gears.
Sure it's a cheap price, but I would recommend sitting tight on your current pricing for the Black Pearl gears. I'll bet there's no comparison.
I ordered a set just to see while I await the set from Alan. It came in today and although it looked good and felt strong it made a funny noise in my 506HS. Sort of a clicking sound.. I pulled on it for a good 10 minutes at 15+ lbs
an update on the gear set:
the ring on the pinion popped off and i think that is what making the noise. reel continued to pull well but the free spool suffered dramatically.
Quote from: maxpowers on October 18, 2013, 02:11:54 PM
an update on the gear set:
the ring on the pinion popped off and i think that is what making the noise. reel continued to pull well but the free spool suffered dramatically.
the ring might not be pressed in correctly. You should be able to put it back on better.
What is the purpose of the ring on the pinion gear? Is it to keep the spindle from stripping the pinion?
Quote from: maxpowers on October 18, 2013, 07:36:28 PM
What is the purpose of the ring on the pinion gear? Is it to keep the spindle from stripping the pinion?
I think there is a purpose for that ring. I have to take off a 113H to check it again.
Quote from: maxpowers on October 18, 2013, 07:36:28 PM
What is the purpose of the ring on the pinion gear? Is it to keep the spindle from stripping the pinion?
Yes, To beef them up for strength.
there has been a lot of conversations about teeth shredding under stress, I haven't had that luck yet :-\. The damage that I've seen on my gears from my stress test was related to that area where the ring sits. The teeth on my Jigmaster under that ring did get damaged and the 6/0 pinion opened up like a V shape at that same area, but the teeth never shredded, the 6/0 main gear did move to one side and got pointy though. Here is a shot of what I'm talking about, sorry couldn't find the pinion.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/th_006_zpscd42c7a7.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/006_zpscd42c7a7.jpg.html)
Click on it to enlarge.
Quote from: Black Pearl on October 13, 2013, 01:42:37 AM
This seller (the same guy sold to Dawn at smooth drag) dropped the price like crazy. It is $29.95 while Charkbait is selling the same set for $39.99. It is a bargain.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190895781428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190895781428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)
I would like to know if anyone bought from him. If so, can you tell us if it is ok.
Well, that seller dropped the price again. It is $24.95 now. I guess he wants to get rid of all. Then, Charkbait is still selling it for #39.99.