Penn 113H has no real drag...

[erikpowell]

Geez, don't do anything rash....will ya just send the thing to Sal please 

[Keta]

The best way to configure/adjust your drag stack (in my humble opinion), is to pull the bridge assembly and assemble all parts including gear sleeve, under gear washer, main gear, all CF/Keyed/eared washers, spring washer(s), star, and handle and check for drag stack function and star travel on the threads.  If your drag stack is not being sufficiently compressed as the star begins to tighten you may be missing a Belleville, your sleeve might be too short, or you need another keyed washer in top of stack to increase the spacing.  Once you have your drag stack configured, and spacing set up correctly, you need to test fit it on the right sideplate to ensure you have adequate clearance between the stack and plate when the bridge screws have been tightened and the star is backed all the way back.  You will know if it binds here at all.  There are different Belleville, keyed washers, top hat washers, and gear sleeves (thickness/lengths) that can be used to fine tune your stack accordingly.  Hope this helps?

YUP!

[Shark Hunter]

Sal will hook you up. He is the one that always helped me out and Still Does.

[Bryan Young]

I embedded my response in your quote below to keep things in order.

Well I tore the reel apart. I am now confused more than ever!
Bryan, the fibre washers have a definite "tread" pattern to them and when feeling them you can feel the "tread".
BAY>That's a good sign.Now, as I said I would, I was carefull to look for an "insert" (#15A). It is not there. So according to a Penn schematic there should be 3 metal washers against each other without the "insert". On another schematic it shows 2 metal washers against each other with an "insert" (#15A). Both schematics are for a 113H, red side plates and a half frame.
BAY>I have NEVER seen insert 15A-113H.  I think that may have been a very limited run item.  I think it essentially fills the gap for the space where if the reel is cofiigured in left hand configuration, the dog would go in that spot and the spacer will be moved to the other side.  I would not worry about Part 15A-113H.

Regarding the metal washers, are you referring to Part Nos. 8-349, 18-970, and 9-113H?  Well, I often toss Part No. 18-970 as it really doesn't help, and this parts often rusts, and that is the main reason why I toss this washer.


Here is the schematic which shows 3 metal washers against one another and NO "insert".
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/penn-113h-special-senator-reel-parts-c-186082_186083_186193.html


Here is the one showing 2 metal washers against each other and an "insert" (#15A).
https://www.mysticparts.com/images/pennparts/schematics/113h_half.pdf

Please note that mine had 3 metal washers against each other and NO "insert" and at "startup" the drag was 7 lbs. So it makes NO difference if there are 3 or 2 metal washers. They act only as spacers. The spacer sleeve is not into the side plate prohibiting the star from tightening down more, but the drag is compressed to the max that doesn't allow the star to tighten down any more unless you would use big pliers and bust something inside.

BY>I've studied your pictures and looking at your drag stack order , it looks fine.

At this point I know nothing and am about to mount the reels on my transom and use them to bring in dredges and chains or throw them away so they don't give me any more headaches!

BY>Bob, we have all been there...well, I have.  I really cannot talk for anyone else.  It may be something really simple that we are missing.  See if you can hook up with Sal.  If you don't mind mailing your reel off, I'd gladly help.

Thank you all, Bob

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

i've been following, not closely though, this thread and did a little research and agree with Bryan don't worry about the insert part 15A-113H. it has nothing to do with the drag mechanism. but i think this insert is used as plugs if you don't want lugs on your reel. also looked at your drag stack and someone had the same problem with his reel and did away with the 6th metal washer and it solved the problem. i highly recommend to do the same thing because that washer is not keyed and i'm thinking it's slipping. just my 2 cents.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

I believe both Johntuttle and Oldscool are correct here. I ran into the same situation on a 113h tank I just completed recently. Found a NIB USA made 113 at a local shop, ordered up a tib frame, stainless gear sleeve, 5+1 stack, handle, and ss dogs. When I got it all together I was disappointed when I could barely pull 15 lbs. of drag with the star turned down all the way. After tearing down and reassembling the stack several times it occurred to me that I had two stainless washers together at the top. I swear that was the way it came new, so I just assembled it the same way. Put it back together with only the single washer on top and Bingo!.. 22lbs. of drag without even trying hard! Could probably get close to 30 if I cranked it down. I just don't see how two greased ss washers can work together properly unless they are somehow locked together.

here is his post...

[wascallywabit]

i've been following, not closely though, this thread and did a little research and agree with Bryan don't worry about the insert part 15A-113H. it has nothing to do with the drag mechanism. but i think this insert is used as plugs if you don't want lugs on your reel. also looked at your drag stack and someone had the same problem with his reel and did away with the 6th metal washer and it solved the problem. i highly recommend to do the same thing because that washer is not keyed and i'm thinking it's slipping. just my 2 cents.

x2

[Keta]

but i think this insert is used as plugs if you don't want lugs on your reel.

It goes into the AR dog slot on side plates that have the cut out for LH and RH AR dogs to keep the bridge from bending if you over tighten the screws.  I've only seen 1 of them.

[hippie]

Keta, That is how my side plate is (cut out for either rh or lh). So I won't worry about that, good, that is some progress!
MelB and others, I will take out the washer above the keyed washer and see how things go. I also have some super thin fibre washers and could put one in between the two metal washers. I will try as you men said first.

Thank you, Bob

[alantani]

bob, i know i'm late to this discussion, but something is bottoming out somewhere, or you have metal to metal somewhere. 

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

Bob,

you can replace the 6th washer with a keyed one to add more height to the spacer or place that unkeyed washer before the star.

don't worry buddy with the resources AlanTani.com has will get to the bottom of this.

[hippie]

Well, I took both 113's apart today. The one I had been working on was the way you men said with only 2 washers at the top of the stack. It was getting 7 lbs at startup. I put another washer on top of the two metal ones making 3 metal washers together on top of the drag. Tested and now at 11 lbs. Then I put two additional spring washers above the spacer sleeve and directly below the star. Tested and now at 16 lbs. When twisting the star tight I can now feel it "bottom out". The other reel was configured  as you guys said it should be and was testing at 7 lbs. I took it apart but came up light on washers so I couldn't add 3 additional to the setup. So it is still testing at 7 lbs.  My honest opinion is that these reels are like boat engines. They just are not engineered the right way yet. I try to buy American goods and Penn in Phila. is close by. But why they would put something like this out on the market is beyond me. Two never used reels and a person still has to work on them. I have had better luck buying used stuff at flea markets for $10.00/reel.
Anyway Sal contacted me and said he'd look at them.

Thank you, Bob

[hippie]

Bryan, the pic you posted of my stack is how I have the reel getting 16lbs. All I did was add another spring washer below the star. So in the pic everything is the same except that where you see a washer above the star (when installed it is actually below the star) there is now two identical washers there.
Hope this helps, Bob

[maxpowers]

I think whoever set up your reel chose the wrong sleeve spacer.  it was probably caught on something with enough force to feel like you are tightening down the drag.

[Bryan Young]

What is the ID of the spring washers?  It looks like, from the picture, to be about the same as the OD of the spacer, and therefore, it may be that the spacers are binding with the spring washers.