Loose Reel Seat Repair

erikpowell · April 07, 2014, 07:56:05 PM

Bula !

Hoping to hear from Ken D and Jeri here.... and maybe William.... Where is Saltydog anyway? it's been awhile.

Rod building question for ya:

we're having an epidemic of loose reel seats here...and I mean Epidemic!!
I've pretty much left it to the shop owner to deal with those, and I stick to wrapping and changing guides...reels etc.
well, I've cut a couple open and find the tape arbors crumbling apart, lost bond graphite arbors etc....
this is waaay too common a problem here...and we need a fix...an easy fix

We've been drilling ⅛" holes and trying to inject 5min epoxy in with syringes, but you know how thats ending.. some success, mostly mess.
we need a less viscous glue with more open time...
sometimes we manage to get a whole syringe full in there and the next day it still moves !

my next step will be a Frankenbolt or pop rivets

I'd like to hear how others do it.... really trying to avoid having to pull grips off etc. ?

Thanks a lot fellas! Vinaka!

Marlinmate · April 09, 2014, 03:53:20 AM

https://www.google.com/#q=repairing+a+loose+reel+seat

Jeri · April 10, 2014, 12:41:47 AM

Hi Eric,

Apart from the obvious solution of removing the rear handle assembly, and the using a two part resin to repair with proper arbors – there is always the option of changing the resin that you are using for injecting. Bill Smiths, which is what we have been using for ages without failures, have various time options on setting times, like 5 minute, 12 minute and 30 minute. If you can get hold of the 30 minute resin, then drop the bottles in a bowl of hot water – near boiling to seriously reduce the viscosity. Then mix a potion of resin in a bowl, and pull into the syringe. You will find this much easier to inject and obviously give you a longer working period for the resin, before it starts its initial set. Then leave to cure and harden for 24 hours before use.

An alternative, and this depends on what the rods are being used for, I would suggest to be used for lighter applications, it to use your syringe method but use 2 part finishing resin – like Flexcoat. Again heated before mixing, will become very fluid, and easily injected into the voids under the reel seat.

The less than easy fix, is to do the job properly, getting a small section of carbon tube to fit inside the reel seat (cleaned), and then fitted over the existing blank. Basically a new arbour – I've used sections of old fishing rods, even glass will do, as that is usually thick wall, and helps for building up the thickness. Then again, us Bill Smiths two part resin to bond all the components together. Rear grip rebuilds can be quickly done with heat shrink tubing followed by a butt cap.

A problem that we have found, even on new rods is that the blank surface is so smooth that the resins don't bond. The cure is to simply roughen the surface with some grit paper, just to take off any paint or surface treatment – clean with Acetone, and maybe even scour the inside of the reel seat, just to all give the resin a key to bond to.

Reel seats are an increasingly over looked stress element on fishing rods being pushed through factory assembly lines – and in a lot of cases they take huge side stress loads, that compromise the strength of the resin adhesive. Even on our surf rods, we have taken to roughening all the insides of the reel seats before building – so the offset loads of winding and winching don't cause the bond to fail.

In the end there is no easy fix for poorly built rods with too few arbors or tape that has not been fully encased in resin during the initial build. There is a problem with the increasingly smaller blanks being used in very high stress situations like jigging, where huge rotational loads are placed on reel seats – the only true answer is to build proper carbon arbors and make sure that the bond interfaces of the resin are better.

Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

erikpowell · April 12, 2014, 08:42:58 PM

Bula,
As usual that's great info Jeri,

thanks for taking the time out to share.
I'm with ya 110%

Vinaka from sunny Fiji !

Ken_D · June 23, 2014, 05:16:58 PM

Oops, Missed this thread. I get very vicious when it comes to loose seats, on hollow rods. My method may not be for everyone, but it works, for years and years and forever. Because I get all the dead birds from the local sports store, I have an endless supply of every rod's size known, for pins, plugs, spigots, yada.

I take the carbide blade in the chop saw, and cut the seat in the middle. Each half now can come away. To reveal the dumb-arse way they made arbors, zero resin or glue in the voids, blah blah blah. Then it's a simple matter to put a spigot inside one half of the rod, bond it, bond the seat to that half of the rod to an exact fit, with the spigot sticking out, spread resin on the other half of the rod and the spigot, and mate up the seat to the other side. After doing arbors that actually fit.
With resin in the voids. That's all she wrote, being careful to ensure the shrouds are on the correct side of the rod, or all the guides are upside down !!!! Do NOT ask how I know about this.....

erikpowell · June 23, 2014, 07:20:23 PM

Sounds like you've had to do that more than a few times Ken

I hear ya!
Soon as I figure out what a spigot is I'm going to try your method.

Ken_D · June 23, 2014, 07:51:35 PM

Hio.. Spigot is a fairly common British term mostly used for a ferrule system with a pin glued into the butt section, and the tip coming down on and over the pin. So you can interchange pin and spigot. Reel seats are not overly spendy.. in most cases.. anywhere from 3-8.00 for the graphite ones, and maybe double for the HD aluminum ones. To do the mod as outlined in the post above takes maybe 30 minutes, but in any case well under an hour.

If they used a fat seat on a skinny blank, you can do the pin, then a sleeve over as well, then the seat. Most times, though, no room for a sleeve over, unless you opt to replace with a larger diameter reel seat.

Another way to do it, if the rod uses corks for the grip is to pull 2" of rings off one end or the other, slide the seat down that much, and fill the entire void you see, with resin. That's a little more intense, as the corks need to be put back. There's a latin term (which I have forgotten) for those dark lines appearing across the ring. I cut into that, and carefully spread the reamed ring over the rod, and glue everybody up. If the ring splits in two, I use those nylon wrap-ties as clamps to hold them around the rod while the resin sets.

If the ring does not split, I just use a wire tie from the bag of plastic garb. bags. I Measure a little shy on the removed rings , so the new rings are squeezed into position, clamping them the long way.

It's less spendy and a lot quicker to cut the rod, and replace the seat, tho.

erikpowell · August 14, 2014, 10:25:52 AM

Thanks Ken, and you too Jeri!
After months of putting it off, I've accumulated over a dozen rods awaiting this repair.
now, I can keep about half of those, but the others are for sports..
What a PIA loose seats are.

at least I've got plenty to practice on.
Erik

Newell Nut · August 14, 2014, 07:47:57 PM

I have finished about 40 of them in the past few months but cutting off the old and replacing with new Fuji parts and with plenty of epoxy.

erikpowell · August 16, 2014, 04:11:55 AM

Dwight, are you doing it like Ken as described above.. cutting through the whole thing and sleeving the blank back together?
What are you using for sleeves/ferrules inside?
Thanks, I need to get on this

Keta · August 16, 2014, 06:24:06 PM

I remove the reel seat and lower grip. Then make a new piece on a section of aluminum tube large enough to slip over the butt of the blank. The next time I do one I'll try to remember to take photos.

floating doc · August 16, 2014, 06:53:35 PM

I have always used the edge of my file to lightly scuff the blank under the reel seat and grip. I don't bear down on the file, but just let it slide over the blank under it's own weight. The goal is to scuff the finish, not damage the fibers. I then flip the file around and gouge the inside of the reel seat. I've used masking tape arbors for years, but I leave plenty of blank exposed since that's where the strength of the bond is. Tape is just to keep the reel seat centered.

Next rod I build, I'm going to use fiberglass drywall tape and saturate it with epoxy while wrapping it on the blank.

Newell Nut · August 17, 2014, 12:43:36 AM

Quote from: erikpowell on August 16, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
Dwight, are you doing it like Ken as described above.. cutting through the whole thing and sleeving the blank back together?
What are you using for sleeves/ferrules inside?
Thanks, I need to get on this

I use a wafer disc on a side grinder to cut a slice on each side of the reel seat and they come off easy. I am also replacing the EVA. I wrap masking tape in three areas of the reel seat area when I put the new one on with plenty of epoxy. What I am finding is that the previous installer was skimpy with epoxy and very cheap on the reel seats anyway. Many that are still holding will no longer hold a reel.

On my personal rod that I built this week I used a piece of bamboo that I carefully sanded to fit the shaft and fit perfectly in the Fuji seat. When I slid it on with the epoxy it came to rest perfectly and will only come off with a grinder. I split the bamboo and just kept working it until it was right.