PENN PICTURE TAIL PLATES

[Tightlines667]

I have a LongBeach question for someone 'in the know'. 

I recently came accross a model 67 that appears to be non-numbered, saltwater stand (possibly w/"500 yds" yardage marked), and no picture tailplate.  It has a torpedo knob with a tall 'slug' counterweight.  The nonnumbered parts along with handle knob counterweight suggest late 40s.  But I thought stand yardages were discontinued post 1942, and the first generation larger Longbeaches (66,67,68) had a picture tailplate mold.  What year did the picture tailplates dissapear?

Also, I wonder if this thread, and "Penn Chronoligical History Book"...

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12847.0

...can be moved to the "Fishing Antiques and Collectables" section?

[Penn Chronology]

I recently came accross a model 67 that appears to be non-numbered, saltwater stand (possibly w/"500 yds" yardage marked), and no picture tailplate.  It has a torpedo knob with a tall 'slug' counterweight.  The nonnumbered parts along with handle knob counterweight suggest late 40s.  But I thought stand yardages were discontinued post 1942, and the first generation larger Longbeaches (66,67,68) had a picture tailplate mold.  What year did the picture tailplates dissapear?

John,

I would say you have a 1939 Long Beach 67. The plain tail plate is the sign of a very early large Long Beach. It is impossible to say when exactly Penn transitioned away from line capacity numbered stands, especially with reels like the large Long Beach models. I would think you are correct in saying the plain, unstamped stands were used in the late 1940's, right before they were stamped with part numbers. I have one each of the early Long Beach models, the newest one has a plain, unstamped stand, a picture tail plate and a Hershey kiss clicker button. More than likely a 1948 or 49 reel. Line capacity stampings are pre-war.

[Tightlines667]

I recently came accross a model 67 that appears to be non-numbered, saltwater stand (possibly w/"500 yds" yardage marked), and no picture tailplate.  It has a torpedo knob with a tall 'slug' counterweight.  The nonnumbered parts along with handle knob counterweight suggest late 40s.  But I thought stand yardages were discontinued post 1942, and the first generation larger Longbeaches (66,67,68) had a picture tailplate mold.  What year did the picture tailplates dissapear?

John,

I would say you have a 1939 Long Beach 67. The plain tail plate is the sign of a very early large Long Beach. It is impossible to say when exactly Penn transitioned away from line capacity numbered stands, especially with reels like the large Long Beach models. I would think you are correct in saying the plain, unstamped stands were used in the late 1940's, right before they were stamped with part numbers. I have one each of the early Long Beach models, the newest one has a plain, unstamped stand, a picture tail plate and a Hershey kiss clicker button. More than likely a 1948 or 49 reel. Line capacity stampings are pre-war.

Mike,

Thanks for the quick and informative response.  Still not sure when Penn transitioned away from the pictured tailplates on the LB though?

Regarding my recent LB 67 aquisition, I may have had some unconfirmed or misinformation in the post.  Not sure about the stand, and I neglected to mention it has the more modern headplate logo with the model number.  I
should recieve the reel by week's end, and can post pictures or at least confirm facts at that time, if anyone is interested.  I figured the reel must be worth the $17 I paid

http://m.ebay.com/itm/181799492468

[Penn Chronology]

Still not sure when Penn transitioned away from the pictured tailplates on the LB though?

Penn transitioned away from the picture tail plates in 1952 with the Long Beach style change:


A new head plate and logo design was brought in with the advent of part numbers:




I would say the Long Beach you bought on EBay is a late 1940's or even a 1950 model.

[Maxed Out]

 John, as near as I can tell, the larger long beach reels stopped using picture tail plates in the very early 1950's. This was same time frame when Penn also stopped using engraved tail plates on the long beach 60 & 65, and also redesigned both sideplates.

Just after the war, Penn was still dealing with raw material shortages, and during those first couple years following WWII, the long beach 60 and 65 had plastic spools as standard equipment and metal spool was $1.00 extra. Those plastic spools had considerably larger arbor, which in turn meant those reels had smaller line capacities. The LB 60 went from 250yd reel, to a 200yd reel (catalog 11), and the LB 65 went from 300yd reel, to a 250yd reel... so penn stopped stamping yardages on the seat, likely to prevent confusion, and Penn also knew that as soon as the raw material shortage ended, the 60 & 65 would return to metal spools, which in turn would put those 2 reels back to their original capacities of 250 & 300.

 I know your question was about the larger long beach models, but it is the story behind the smaller yardage LB reels that points to one of the reasons Penn removed yardage stamping from almost every reel just after WWII       

   In the 30's you had to look at the yardage stamp to determine the model number, but that was no longer needed when Penn began putting the model number in with the logo on the head plate.


Without seeing your reel, it is tough to date it. It could be an earlier reel with a replacement tail plate. Back then when clickers went bad, replacing the tail plate was the only cure, and also same result if a sideplate was broken.

[Tightlines667]

Got my no. 67 in the mail today.  It actually has the expected picture tailplate (just not very visable w/o the right lighting).  There are no visable part numbers, the spool arbor is drilled, and the drag is externally accessable.  I would hesitantly date it to post war, pre 1952.  I don't think it can be a 1942 reel (w/the incorre t handle) given the stand has no visable yardage stamp.  Regardless, I had been looking for a nonnumbered 67, and 68 to ad to my collection, and this fits the ticket.  Always open to words of wisdom from those more learned members.

[Penn Chronology]

John,

In my humble opinion, it is a late 1940's reel.

Mike C.

[Tightlines667]

John,

In my humble opinion, it is a late 1940's reel.

Mike C.

Thanks Mike!


Thanks Mike!

Well acording to your published price guide it is worth:
-$40-$80 if it's pre-1950 (1946/47/48/49)
Or:
-$30-$60 for a 1950
-$25-$50 for a 1951-57

Guess thats $17 well spent

[Shark Hunter]

I'm proud of this one Mike. I found it on my regular troll.
I don't think the stand is correct, but that's OK. $30 was a bargain in my book.
I am always looking for these old picture plates. I'm just not willing to give four figures for one.
For the money I spent on this one, I think I did good. Other than that tiny scratch on the bottom left of the plate. Its pretty much perfect.

[Tightlines667]

Nice reel Daron.  Does that have yardage marked on the stand?  Or do you know the length of the posts?  The tailplate is definately prewar with that waffle clicker.  May have a late 40s handle assembly, and 1950s stand (numbered)?  The tailplate is the earliest picture plate on this model.

[Shark Hunter]

The stand is numbered John. 30-66. That's why I don't think its original.
The posts are 2 and 1/8" long. I knew it was old, just because it had the logo "Long Beach" Pat. No numbers. It came from St. Clarita California.
I have no problem spending less than two figures on a little gem like this. I will peek inside when I get the time. I think it may be a hodge podge, but that's Ok. I think the majority of the parts are non numbered. The handle nut, just says "oil", Nothing else.

[Tightlines667]

Looks to be a 1939-42 LongBeach Model 65 with 3 & 1/4" sideplates, and 400yd spool capacity.  This reel is supposed to have a drilled spool arbor, non-numbered stand, and torpedo knob w/ large coin-edged counterweight.  Looks like the head andvtailplate bushing, rod stand and clamp are post 1950, and the handle assembly is late 1940s.

Cool looking reel, and a score at $30.  Restoring back to period-correct state would ad to its value to a collector.  Mike's book puts the value between $25-$50, but many have been selling for close to double that lately.  I think this reel should have leather drags, and possibly steel gears too.  Let us know what you find inside.

[Penn Chronology]

The stand is numbered John. 30-66. That's why I don't think its original

Nice. I would say your reel is a 1941 or 42 model. The stand is a common upgrade for early Long Beach reels. The previous owner probably wanted a Long Beach 65 with a rod clamp stand, so they just added one in the 1950's. The waffle clicker is pre-war, making this a very interesting reel. The handle may also be pre-war if it is a Penn 66 length. The handle may be another upgrade made to the reel back in the day.

Your reel is a perfect example of how reels were upgraded before the days of the Alan Tani websites or aftermarket part conversions possibilities like Newell, Accurate, etc.. If I were you, I would not change anything about the reel. I would simply mint it out and make up a good story about how reels were made into tanks before custom parts were available.

I see there is a part number on the tail plate bearing, I was wondering if the spool was numbered also. Those would also be common upgrades, especially if this Long Beach had a plastic spool, like so many did right before the war.

[Shark Hunter]

The Surfmaster is a smaller reel Joe. They all had the same scene on them. It may look the same, but this one is different. The long beach is a much bigger reel.
I found another one Mike.
This reel was advertised as a Delmar. Its actually a 160. This is the one you have on your 170.
I don't have it in my hands yet, these are the pics from the auction.

[Tightlines667]

That is the same pictureas is gound on all of the smaller reels.  It appears on my 180 and my 185.  Nice find though.