Q: Abu C3 doesn't always engage...what's the cure?

[Steve-O]

I have a 6500 C3 that is in great shape except for one little thing.

The gear doesn't engage to crank the spool sometimes. And sometimes it disengages during winding and growls at me. It's acting up and temperamental. Grrrrr.

Anyone experience this and have a clue for me?

Yes, I can open it up and replace a part if needed...it would just be nice to know what to look for.

Thought about tossing it or sticking it on that auction site as a parts reel but seeing the going rate for new and used C3's and knowing how much I like my Abu's ....maybe I should fix it instead and do a mild customizing job on it. Then sling big carp baits with it again.

Toss your ideas, please and thank you.

Steve

[Steve-O]

Well, i opened her up and started my own diagnosis.

Looks to me that the pinion yoke has given up the ghost...the little neck area which holds the pinion gear seems to be crapped out and a design or part weak point.

Looking online, I found them on fleabay. $3 for the part and $3 for the shipping. Little bugger must be REAL heavy when it gets to the Post Office.  Seriously? $3 to send a few grams part?

Anybody see anything else going on?

All the rest got the normal treatment...marine grease - light coat. Visual inspection of each part for wear. Some Teflon grease here and there. Th drag stack is OEM so I might as well get a set of Carbonite washers while I have it apart.

The weep hole idea at the bottom of each side plate is a home run tip in my book so I diamond bit Dremeled a mm hole in each and cleaned the inside holes so it would not have a bur lip to block any water.

I was thinking of sticking a single power handle on it or drill out both of the OEMs and replaced one side with a JW style aluminum ball knob or EvA knob in the 35-44 mm range. I carp angle at night often and grabbing a skinny paddle during a hard take hookset could be easier with the larger knob.

I thought this would be way harder to delve in to but after a number of Penns under my belt and a few low profile baitcasters...this was easy peasy.  

[Reel 224]

Where you are located, there are no dealers for Abu reels? Or tackle shops? It would be less expensive to try them first. Shipping is expensive threw USPS for small packaging. I really have no better suggestions then that. Or maybe try calling Abu and see if they will stand behind there reel and send you the part, it's worth the try.

[foakes]

Yes, I know what you mean about the postage, Steve --

However, I don't think that is a concern at $3.

If I use a decent 3M bubble envelope --

My cost is 50 cents plus tax, at the dollar store.

Post Office charges $2.42 postage in lower 48.

That is a grand total of $2.97 -- which is the best part of a $3 bill.

This does not count my time, care, driving to the PO, gas, etc.

Not a money maker -- just a fair price for shipping in this day and age -- or am I missing something?

If you drove around to find a shop, or even made calls -- would that save any money?  Maybe a dollar or two.

I have shipped parts like this (thin, light) in a regular envelope for 50 cents postage and an envelope.

But not everybody will do that -- and besides, it only saved the client $2 -- and I am not sure anyone noticed or really cared.

Just my thoughts.

Personally, what I do not appreciate -- are the ebay sellers making more money off of shipping costs, than the item.

Best,

Fred

[Steve-O]

Yea....just a Kodak moment on my part.
I have been on ebay since 98 and have never charged for gas, cardboard, bubble wrap, etc. and mostly do free shipping CONUS no matter what I sell. Will never gouge either. Selling some reels now at low prices just for good karma. Harryk on here just got a teal 209 off me at the basement of costs. All good.

No real tackle shops around...Sportsmans warehouse ..no reel service but free parts from their junk bin. And Cabela's ...no parts. I will check with Abu Garcia then buy the needed stuff.

[Reel 224]

The one point that Fred made about driving around and time(yes that is two), is right on. I live near quite a few tackle shops and I don't think I would save $3.00 by driving to any one of them for parts, just time in getting the part. Scott's bait and tackle which is a popular place to get parts is about forty minutes from me, that's an easy $30.00 in gas. A phone call doesn't cost me anything but time.

[johndtuttle]

Well, glad you got it sorted Steve. 

These yokes typically hold up for many years and the advantage of the nylon/delrin yoke is that it "slides" well over many years with neglect as compared to metal yokes that require more maintenance (but do not wear ).

Once replaced you should be good to go for quite some time.

[Reel 224]

Well, glad you got it sorted Steve. 

These yokes typically hold up for many years and the advantage of the nylon/delrin yoke is that it "slides" well over many years with neglect as compared to metal yokes that require more maintenance (but do not wear ).

Once replaced you should be good to go for quite some time.

John: I sort of understand what you are saying about Nylon/Delran yoke sliding with less effort under less then Ideal conditions. But to be honest I feel the old reels with there mettle parts last a heck of a lot longer even when neglected, and example of that is a Pflueger Capital reel that I have which is what 40-50 years old. it was neglected and needed maintenance. I took it apart and with the help of a few guys here re-assembled it and it is as quiet and smooth as silk. New technology is one thing but the cheeping of parts is another. I don't profess to know half of what you guys do about reels, on the other hand I do know guns. I see it all the time with the engineering of the new firearms mettle parts being replaced by lesser materials......not a good thing. Abu Garcia and Browning made some great Reels and Shotguns respectively. Not the same today.     

[foakes]

I need to apologize in advance for venting -- I rarely do, but in the case of nylon, Delrin, plastic, or graphite parts -- here goes...

Delrin for UG or top of stack is OK -- and a fantastic solution -- because it is a part that is easily replaced and is designed to wear out eventually.

However, in the case of using graphite, Delrin, plastic, or nylon for other moving reel parts -- here is what happens in the real world --

Few, if any manufacturers nowadays, will offer support in the way of parts after 3 years -- if we are lucky, maybe 5.

I work on hundreds of old reels that are 30-40-50 years old or more.  

If they have an issue with a metal part -- I can generally repair it.  If made of some sort of other material such as graphite, Delrin, nylon, or plastic -- it cannot be fixed 99 times out of a 100 -- without a donor parts reel.

If I had any doubts about my theory -- I need look no farther than storage boxes full of perhaps 1000 decent old reels with just (1) part broken -- and useless because of parts non-availability.  This is because the manufacturer does not support the product anymore -- and the composite part is unique to that reel.

Give me a reel made out of metals any day -- over a composite one with inferior interior components impossible to locate.

If I wanted a Fishing reel made out of Tupperware internals & externals-- I would go to a Tupperware party.

Just my opinion -- sorry.

Best,

Fred

[Alto Mare]

Well, glad you got it sorted Steve. 

These yokes typically hold up for many years and the advantage of the nylon/delrin yoke is that it "slides" well over many years with neglect as compared to metal yokes that require more maintenance (but do not wear ).

Once replaced you should be good to go for quite some time.

John, I respectfully disagree with you on the yoke. A metal yoke would do much better there.
The only function the yoke has is to move up and down, engage and disengage the pinion. The pinion rotate on the yoke and that's where you would have problems, a little tilt of the pinion and it would act as a circular saw.
I've been using a file on the all pinions, by the grove where it rides on the yoke. I do it to stock or custom pinions, this only takes a minute or so and it really helps, you just have to make sure the file doesn't have a cutting edge on the sides.
Sal

[johndtuttle]

Sal, Fred, Reel224 et al ( ) I think we are talking at cross purposes here and agree more than would appear at first glance...

There is no question that I will always prefer the more long term reliable method of engineering a reel and am not saying that Nylon yokes are parts that make a reel such....they are a cost, weight and maintenance saving solution that works...for a time. remember, these are fresh water reels that guys stress if one weighs a fraction of an oz. more than another (seems silly to us but they do).

We can all decry the advent of "planned obsolescence" or "planned functionality for a given number of hours of use" as we admire Mitchell, Penn or DAM Quick reels that function as new even though they are 30, 40 or 50 or more years old....but the fact of the matter it is the rare buyer of fishing equipment that remotely considers that important and wants a different reel.

They want lighter reels, they want cheaper reels, they want faster reels, they want sexy cosmetics...

You gotta realize that every purchase of this type that uses non-essential funds for toys more or less are bought because the consumer is getting *precisely* what he wants. And the successful product is meeting (some very high percentage) of the needs of the people at that price point.

I spent more than 12 years in Outdoor Retailing including 6 years as a Buyer for The North Face Retail Division and you gotta realize that this sort of yuppie toy is not and has never been about function. It is about the purchaser choosing something that reflects himself as he sees himself (regardless of reality). It takes most guys decades to get to where they are ready for function over style.

We love modded Senators and old enduring classics *because we see ourselves* in those reels. Steady, not a fancy dancer, but utterly reliable even if a little the worse for wear with a few battle scars and blemishes  .  But solid guts where it counts and indestructible....(true or not ).

The younger guys (who is buying most of these reels) sees himself as sexy and racy and able to land monsters on the skimpiest of reels because newer must be better (like himself) than those old school fuddy duddies that think they know something he doesn't....and he is on a budget too lol.

Anyways...the Market for outdoor equipment is a funny place with most of the people spending money on stuff having no idea why other than they are having fun. I always have a place in my heart for economical stuff that lets people have fun. They simply cannot grasp that the funnest thing is substance over style until they are ready.

We know what it takes to build a better reel....but the consumer does not want that reel. When you realize that they know what they want, but you are thinking of the product in a completely different way than they most likely ever will....then you will understand why Shimano has over $3 Billion in worldwide sales....and it is not because they don't understand their customer...


best

[Alto Mare]

I hear what you're saying John, but on this particular reel mentioned above, if you compare a metal yoke to that bulky plastic one, the metal might be lighter .
I do like Abu reels, I used one last year for the first time and quickly fell in love. I was impressed when I took it apart, those guys know what they're doing.  The only thing, I personally don't like a plastic yokes.
Mine has a metal one.

[Reel 224]

I want to say this first, please don't take my comments as a personal attack on your knowledge. I am rather speaking in terms of quality and value for the consumers best interest, I feel it is our responsibility as professionals to educate the young public as best we can. You Fred and Sal on the finer points of dependable and quality reels. I mean isn't that what this site is about? Learning how to improve our equipment and the quality of finer tools being reels in this case? I really don't like to vision a customer as a person that knows nothing about his purchase and it doesn't matter whether he is taken advantage of. It's better to educate then to ignore ignorance.  Not withstanding that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. 

[MarkT]

I like metal on the load bearing parts and don't like the mfg'ers experimenting with my reel.

[johndtuttle]

I want to say this first, please don't take my comments as a personal attack on your knowledge. I am rather speaking in terms of quality and value for the consumers best interest, I feel it is our responsibility as professionals to educate the young public as best we can. You Fred and Sal on the finer points of dependable and quality reels. I mean isn't that what this site is about? Learning how to improve our equipment and the quality of finer tools being reels in this case? I really don't like to vision a customer as a person that knows nothing about his purchase and it doesn't matter whether he is taken advantage of. It's better to educate then to ignore ignorance.  Not withstanding that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. 

No worries Reel224 .

But I don't think you grasp the larger point.

No one is taking advantage of anyone, they are competing tooth and nail with other companies for their customer's dollar. These products are highly competitive with each other and the vast majority of sales are based on price as first, last and final considerations. Very, very few fisherman spend any time whatsoever educating themselves like we provide here.

Look at the Baja Special. It incorporates virtually every concept from the "Tank" project in one complete package with full parts support, Made in USA and Penn warranty....and it doesn't sell...why is that? It is the embodiment of this site in every way...simple star drag reliability and the last reel 99% of guys need. It can troll, it can cast, it can bottom fish, it can live bait...and it doesn't sell....why is that?

Because 99% of the guys fishing in Saltwater....that actually need a simple, brutally reliable reel that can do it all and last forever....simply don't want it. Why is that?

Because they look like their dad fishing it and they don't want to look like a guy who fishes a reel that looks like it was designed in 1932...they want to look like a guy who fishes a brand new sexy Shimamo...because that is who they see themselves as being.

You can "educate" guys until you are blue in the face as to this or that inside a reel...but the vast majority doesn't care. They cannot get past the appearance on the outside that convinces them to trust the inside and how they see themselves looking (in their mind's eye) when they are fishing it. It just looks like an old Senator...I remember one discussion about it where some young guy in all seriousness says "why would someone want to fish an old busted Senator...?"...while looking at a brand new Baja Special....

Look at Pro Gear...some of the finest star drag reels ever made....out of business after a few short years. Crushed by the Shimano Trinidad.

Sorry! But that is the way it is standing on a retail floor selling outdoor gear for years. I learned this more than 30 years ago and have seen it play out this way every day since. A lot of stores and companies go broke telling their customers they are wrong instead of giving them what they want...Guys do not go into fishing stores to buy reels out of practical necessity where brutal functionality would triumph over style...because the whole concept is ridiculous to begin with...it is cheaper to buy fish at the market! ....they are going shopping to buy something that makes them feel good. They want something that looks "cool".

We can all opine as to what the better more reliable part might be....and someone from Abu Garcia who is part of Pure Fishing (that also has $3 Billion in sales yearly)...will laugh and say "of course we know that, but we have to keep our doors open and compete with 30 other companies and every fraction of an ounce and penny counts...."

I hope that helps...? It really is a very complicated thing to bring any product to the market that has mature competition...people with $3 Billion in sales did not get there making terrible products (and not to say they can't be improved)...but they got there giving a fair value that met the greater majority of their customer's expectations...sometime we lose sight of the fact that the average customer's expectation is very different than our own.



regards