alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Sleeving my first Accurate.
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Sleeving my first Accurate.  (Read 20486 times)
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alantani
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2011, 04:01:41 PM »

you could get a sleeve that is 5-10 thousanths short, then add shim washers are 1, 2 or 3 thousanths thick until you nail it. not that hard.  alan
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Pelagic Playtime
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 07:36:58 AM »

As a mater of fact, I tried that during one of my attempts. Turns out that Avet puts some small washers on the spool axles of their  MX reels that fit the spool axle of my BX2-400 just fine. Cheesy I think my BX2-500 has the same size spool axle also. I had two sizes on hand, a thick and a thin. I don't know what dimensions they are, but the thin one is just a few thousandths.

Check Avetís exploded view drawings for the part numbers.

Pelagic Playtime.
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alantani
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2011, 08:37:23 PM »

that is funny as hell!  i found exactly the same thing.  i ordered up a bunch of these thrust washers from mcmaster.com.  now i just have to get that table top lathe.  alan
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Mr GreenJeans
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2011, 05:57:20 AM »

I have ordered some tubing to sleeve my BX2 reels, and it should be here in a few days.  The measurement you provide for the sleeve length of the BX2-500 was helpful:  1.1390".  I too will start at around 1.1425", but figure I will end up pretty close to the 1.1390 you found worked.

Do you have any other sleeve measurements for BX2's.  I am specifically interested in 400, 600N and 600?  Thanks.
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alantani
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2011, 08:23:56 AM »

i don't, but jim nomura should.  do a search.  he is on this board. 
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edgarz
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2011, 10:25:39 PM »

Want to share some pictures for dummies like me?
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Mr GreenJeans
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2011, 07:14:59 PM »

Edgarz - Alan already has a couple of threads up with pictures:

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=138.0

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1199.0

I would also like to share what I learned from Jim Nomura.  He sent me these dimensions:

Accurate Sleeve   length   OD   Wall   
            
            
Platinum TD 50   1.701   13/32"   .014"   Ream Spool bore
Platinum TD 30   1.607   11/32"   .014"   
Platinum TD 12   1.469   11/32"   .014"   
Platinum TD 6   0.88   11/32"   .014"   
            
Boss 870   1.15   7/32"   .014"   
Boss 665 HW   1.672   7/32"   .014"   
Boss 665 H   1.245   7/32"   .014"   
Boss 270   0.957   7/32"   .014"   
Boss 197   0.441   7/32"   .014"   
            
Cavalla 15II   1.496         

He also said that he sells these sleeves for $8, plus shipping.  Unfortunately, he has not done any BX2 reels.  So I am on my own for those.  I'll post any results I get.

David

P.S. Sorry for the alignment problems.  It looks fine on the preview screen.
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Mr GreenJeans
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2011, 06:06:14 PM »

Spent some time this weekend sleeving some bearings, so I though I would post my results.  I used K&S engineering stock #130, 7/32 X .014 brass tubing for all five of my BX2 reels.  The final length of the tubing was as follows:

BX2-400 - 0.9565"
BX2-400 - 0.9560"
BX2-500 - 1.1515"
BX2-600N-0.9445"
BX2-600 - 1.2410"

Now for my comments and commentary.

1.   I used a lot of the information that Alan has already posted.  Very helpful.  Since I don't have a drill press, I used my Sato line winder instead.  I just mounted the drill in the mounting bracket and pressed a mill bastard file against the brass tube being held in the drill bit.  I used a sharpening stone to dress the outside edge of the tube so the filings wouldnít cut me or get in the way.  I also dressed the inside edge of the tube using the L-shaped tool pictured here:

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1971.0

2.   It was a real challenge getting a good starting measurement to cut the tube.  I generally ended up just cutting it 1/8" to 3/16" too long and then grinding it down. When you are grinding with a mill bastard file, it takes some time.  Especially since I had to keep popping the tube into the reel to make sure I didn't cut off too much.
3.   One thing to watch for is the tube cutter bending the tube inward and reducing the inside diameter.  What happens then is that the tube wonít fit over the spool shaft.  If you start out with the tube being too long, your problem is solved because you end up grinding off the part where the ID is too small.  However, a couple of times I had to use the L-shaped tool to pull on the inside wall of the tube to stretch the tube wall back out.  Surprisingly, it worked.
4.   In looking for that perfect fit, a couple of times I filed off too much tube.  Bummer!  But there is a fix.  I found that using the L-shaped tool to stretch out the tube wall also adds a couple of thousands of an inch to the tube length.  Who knew?!?  So if you only cut off a teeny bit too much, starting tugging on that tube wall and see if you can make the save.
5.   After the first tube was done, the rest took about an hour apiece.  Not too bad, really.
6.   I should comment that for all of these reels I have already removed the spool bearing side shields, cleaned the bearings and lubricated with TSI 301. With that as a starting place, I found that sleeving the bearings increased the spin time for the reels by about a factor of two.    For the 600N, the spin time started at a very respectable one minute, and jumped to an amazing 3 minutes.  However, my worst performing reel, the 400, started at about 10 seconds and increased to about 20 seconds.  The rest were somewhere in between.

So in sum, Iím glad I did it.  It didnít take all that long, and the improvement was noticeable.  However, I was hoping to get them all over a one-minute spin time, and that didnít happen.  If anyone has suggestions on why I didnít get that one minute, I would love to hear it.  Thanks.

David

P.S. I found that my tube length did not match the length that Pelagic Playtime posted at the beginning of this thread.  I have no explanation.  Probably, one of us needs to calibrate our measuring instrument.
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Pelagic Playtime
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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2011, 11:08:37 AM »

Mr. GreenJeans. I received the PM you sent me and sent a reply but I'm not sure if it went through. If it didn't, shoot me another PM.

I think that the reason that your sleeve length for your reel did not match mine is that even precision components have some small plus or minus dimension that differs from part to part so I am not surprised yours turned out different than mine.

As for your 400 that spins for only 20 seconds, you definitely have some problem other than how you did the sleeve work.

And FYI to everyone. I took apart one of my sleeved reels that ran perfectly and when I put it back together, it did not spin as long as it did before I started. I found that I had to take it apart again and again and each time I would flip over the bearings and sleeve so they went in opposite the way they came out until I found the right combination to make it spin right again. The tolerances are so small that it's that touchy.

Pelagic Playtime.

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Mr GreenJeans
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2011, 04:34:04 PM »

Thanks Mike.  Got your PM.
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JGB
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2011, 10:14:05 PM »

Ok here is the scoop on the bearing grind and variability on sleeving.
first some basic things to consider as this is a trade off:
1. the bearings are not always the best quality (save a buck) and have variable tolerances.
2. They seem to only be concerned in the radial roughness and run out and are not concerned with axial load effects as the bearing are normally preloades axially  with the return springs in freespool.
3. Roughness will/can be experienced in bearings that are not axially preloaded as the balls can/will oscillate from side to side and create vibration and noise or the ball cages can chatter. tighter bearing tolerance will improve this.
4. Used bearing (especially those under heavy loads) will experience outer race groove wear or damage that may only show it's self when loaded one way or the other. Flipping bearings will change the characteristics.
5. If you run a 0  play sleeve (sleeve is exactly the same as the land to land spacing) you run the risk of bearing axial run out or misalignment causing the bearing to chatter and/or reduced performance.
6. Under sleeving will pre load the bearings a bit and if alignment is good reduce chatter and show an improvement in performance. But you are at the mercy of spool and shaft temperature variations causing the pre load to increase as your spool heats up when fighting a fish.
7. Over sleeving by .004" allows a slight spool slop and will allow the bearings to self center (if spool is level) and provide good performance. Running the spool non level will cause the down side bearing to contact the outer race edge and may rumble if there is damage there.
8. Over sleeving by more than .007" (empirically derived) will allow the possibility of the bearing to tilt in the bore causing strange noises and poor performance.
9. If the bearings have lots of axial slop you may need to under sleeve to eliminate bearing tilt and/or chattering of the balls in the cages.

The trade off is extreme fine tuning of sleeve tolerances will/can improve performance. This is at the cost of increased sensitivity to contaminants/race damage as a performance killer. Also as you heat your spool up (drag heat or just plain sunshine) it will expand and effectively shorten the effective length of your sleeve.
Over sleeving produce more consistent performance but will/can unmask bearing flaws that show themselves as vibrations/rumbling/noise that use up energy and slow the spool.

Pick your trade offs wisely and have some fun with your gear.
Jim N.
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wallacewt
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2012, 09:58:47 PM »

could you mark on the shaft A-b where i have to measure(photo)or on a schematic.i remember alan saying the c clip is to long,along the shaft.   sleeves would be different lengths for diff; reels.  but measuring a-b would all be the same starting point, wouldnt they?? 
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