Senator 113, 113-LH (4/0)

sdlehr · April 07, 2016, 02:41:52 AM

Post questions about this reel in this thread

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 12:46:51 AM

I picked up a Senator 113 on the auction site last week. The spool interested me. I had found a 115 with a spool with German silver flanges a few weeks ago, and this one looked similar. This is how it looked on Ebay when I spotted it

I sent the photo to a person who is very knowledgeable regarding Penn reels, who advised me that "it was not collectible" with the comment that it looked as though someone had put the spool in a drill and sanded off all the chrome down to brass. I paid relatively little for the reel. When it arrived I inspected more closely, and I was thinking it was not chromed; it didn't have any green verdigris

Plain cleaning and vinegar only got me this far

Long story short, it did turn out to be German silver; here's how it turned out in the end after 1500 grit and 2000 grit wet sanding

So, naturally, I'm here, so I'm interested in dating this reel. It has no numbered parts; It has a German silver spool. It's got a really plain counterweight on the handle

I'm just going to throw out that this is a pre-war early '40's reel; the others with similar spools have been from that era. I'm particularly interested in the handle counterweight design and when that was used on these Senators; perhaps that offers a clue to this reel's age to someone.

Sid

Penn Chronology · April 11, 2016, 05:05:17 AM

The biggest clue about this reel is it a second generation reel, which puts it post 1948. Since it still has a German Silver flanged spool, I would date it 1949 to 1952. The handle counter weight is correct for the years I have dated the reel. When Penn left the coin edged counter weights, they went to this one piece, plain design and them made them laminated.

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 06:01:07 AM

Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 11, 2016, 05:05:17 AM
The biggest clue about this reel is it a second generation reel, which puts it post 1948.

Doh! I should have realized that. Thanks for the help with dating and the counterweight info. That is very helpful and interesting. This is the only reel in my collection with such a counterweight. Mike, 48-52 is a pretty narrow range, but can I say that it's the earlier part of the range, say 48-50 based on the absence of numbered parts? I know the parts numbers things isn't exact during the transition period of say '50-52 or so (is that correct?), so I guess what you were saying is that there could still have been reels in '52 without any part numbers?

Tightlines667 · April 11, 2016, 06:14:17 AM

Nice find, and an excellent job restoring that reel.

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 06:18:56 AM

Thanks, John. I guess I may have to bid against some of you folks if I do a good enough job showing you how I have come to recognize these spools on Ebay. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut

Sid

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 06:40:49 AM

Here's the link to the 115 with the German silver spool flanges http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17381.0 but you guys have to promise you won't bid against me for these reels with these spools

Sheesh, I'm an idiot. I'll never win another auction for one of these spools now....

Sid

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 06:45:05 AM

Some folks on ORCA have reported these spools with the German silver flanges. The two I've found have had a post on the arbor. The ones on the ORCA site were drilled, I'm pretty sure. Hopefully someone will correct this if it's wrong.

Sid

oc1 · April 11, 2016, 07:08:00 AM

Diamond in the rough there Sid. What catches my eye most is the intricacy of the billfishing scene on the tailplate. Every wave/chop/splash carved in. Sorry, I just look at the pictures.
-steve

Tightlines667 · April 11, 2016, 07:11:38 AM

Sid,
Let me know if you spot one for a 14/0 with a drilled arbor.

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 07:19:48 AM

Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 11, 2016, 07:11:38 AM
Sid,
Let me know if you spot one for a 14/0 with a drilled arbor.

John, I promise, I'll let you know the moment I spot the second 14/0 with German silver flanges. The first one is mine

I have a 113 and a 115 to date. I'm looking to complete the set. How cool would that be?

Sid

Penn Chronology · April 11, 2016, 02:54:47 PM

All of the early Senators are German Silver according to the box labels, they simply all do not have the GS look because of the chrome and years of dirt. Funny thing, I feel that when they are polished they lose the Penn look somewhat. They are certainly pretty; but, there is something incorrect about the look. The Penn starts to look like a vom Hofe.

The part number transition was thought of as complete by most collectors by 1953; but, I am sure someone can refute that with some kind of new find of an NOS 1954 reel missing a part number somewhere. So it is hard to put a 100% date on the transition and in my opinion, sort of pointless. I always like to think of the transition as a transition, rather than an exact line. Sort of like evolution. We cannot find the missing link because there isn't one.

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 03:33:09 PM

Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 11, 2016, 02:54:47 PM
I feel that when they are polished they lose the Penn look somewhat. They are certainly pretty; but, there is something incorrect about the look. The Penn starts to look like a vom Hofe.

I get what you're saying, but I like the look. It's certainly preferable to a chrome corroded ugly mess, and if they were all German silver early on I don't understand why they seem to be so scarce. Maybe they aren't. I certainly don't have the experience here that you do.... maybe the well-kept reels with exposed German silver flanged spools are not trading often on the auction site and I have an even more skewed view of reality than my normally skewed view of reality

Thanks for the help.

Sid

coastal_dan · April 11, 2016, 06:54:41 PM

Sid - May want to check your host... it seems your photos are MIA.

sdlehr · April 11, 2016, 07:27:05 PM

Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 11, 2016, 02:54:47 PM
All of the early Senators are German Silver according to the box labels, they simply all do not have the GS look because of the chrome and years of dirt.

Mike, with all due respect, I don't believe the box labels. Here is my 1st gen '37-38 115 9/0 and spool. This can't be anything but chrome over brass IMO. By "early" I assume these years fit your description. Perhaps this one spool is an exception. I wouldn't know, I've only ever held two 115's, this one and the German silver flanged one I posted about here http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17381.0

Sid