dam super 2 speed rebuild

[jurelometer]

wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?

Good question, Alex...

Best, Fred

My guess is that they are bumping into the fundamental limitations of spinning reel design, especially in the larger reels that would benefit the most from a two-speed gear box.  

The load against the rotor/oscillation assembly from the fish pulling does not change based on the gear ratio, so a lower gear range allows you to put more stress on the reel. While some of these top end spinners support a high drag setting, they don't support winding under the type of load that can be handled by the better conventional reels. Low gear on a two speed spinner will allow you to put more stress on the rotor and oscillation components.  They would rather sell you a 7:1 ratio  reel and tell you pump and wind to relieve the load and  not to "winch" on the fish.  There are very large parts rotating rapidly or moving long distances on  a spinning reel, so it is difficult to design a reel that spins easily when winding for lure retrieval, but is still durable enough to wind under heavy load.  Not a problem for the the drag, as only the spool is rotating, but once you start tuning the handle, there are all sorts of motions in all sorts of directions.  Having only a high gear ratio makes it harder or the angler to put too much winding load on the reel.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?

Well these  are the easy one`s to find .    https://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/wft.html
                                                                   

   There is a 3 speed made .   https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24189

[steelfish]

   There is a 3 speed made .   https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24189

Jeeezzz !! just when I though seeing a 3 speed conventional reel was an odd finding, like the Poseidon 500-R 3-speed I had for repair some years ago, btw, just noticed I never uploaded pictures of the interior of the reel 
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30440.0

I really dont see me switching gears back and forth on a 3 speed reel, sometimes I forgot that my reel have a lower speed maybe because 4:7 on the Makaira 15 it doesnt feel like a high speed at all and the lower gears of 2:1 is reaaaaally low, so I have only used it few times.

[foakes]

In order for a spinning reel to make sense as a "2-Speed" — the frame, gears, shafts, and materials must be of a very "over-built", simple, and heavy-duty type of engineering.

Few manufacturers are willing to go through the expense and development of a 2-Speed Spinning Reel where few anglers will appreciate, know how and when to shift gears, or even be able to afford the price tag in today's market.

Plus, a reel of this type must be heavy, tough, and in most cases will not have that sleek and blingy appearance that most of today's anglers seem to want.

This is a limited market that will not pay for or justify the R&D.

Best, Fred

[oldmanjoe]

   Well i just love my variable speed reels , it is a very simple design with no over engineering .   

[jurelometer]

I think y'all are missing the point.  I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner,  I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible.  Fred mentioned weight, which is true, but if you build out the reel to be burly enough to handle the load, I think that the inertia involved in getting the parts turning would become an issue.   

The main purpose of a two speed reel is to allow having a high speed for retrieval under light load, and a low speed for retrieval under heavy load.  The right angle drive train, the rotation of the rotor , the extension of the spool on the unsupported end of a  shaft makes it  seemingly impossible (at least to me) to build any spinning reel that is light enough and smooth enough to have the advantages of a spinning reel, but still be strong enough to handle winding under load.

So that just leaves the folks that find two speeds useful without a need load up the reel in low gear.  Which makes no sense to me.  If I want  to retrieve more slowly, I can just turn the handle more slowly on a lighter, less complicated reel.  I suspect that the marketplace agrees with me, but there may be a niche that finds it useful.

Thanks for the links Joe.  They should rename the WFT reel to WTF . Alan Hawk was tough on that reel, but still too kind IMHO.  What a mess!  Plus it weighs a ton, and they put a weak drag in it, probably to keep the reel from blowing up in low gear.  A two speed with zinc gears.  Uggh.

In terms of two speed conventionals:  I am not a cow tuna guy, but I found that I was losing much fewer medium to large yellowtail, amberjack, and grouper on deeper drops when I switched to two speed reels.  Just need the low gear long enough to get the fish clear from the bottom, winding against high drag settings.   Works like a winch if you are not too proud to rail the rod a bit.

-J

[Robert Janssen]

Funny y'know, i have an ABU 999 / Zangi 3V three speed. At the time (late '50s) they marketed it as more of a festure of convenience.  Like, "now you can fish those fast lures as easy as 1-2-3! And slowly crawl those bottom lures for perfect bait presentation!"
Of course they ignored the automatically variable transmission built into a person's elbow and wrist, but still...

.

[Midway Tommy]

I think y'all are missing the point.  I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner,  I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible. 

-J

They didn't find it impossible 50-65 years ago. In addition to the Italian made models Dr. Rob mentioned and the Dam Quick 275, Frank & Pignard and later Bon Homme, of France manufactured a medium size two speed called the Sup-Matic (707 & 707G). It was distributed in the US by South Bend and sold in Europe under the name Sup-Matic. Federnfabrik and Apparatebau, A.G. of Kaltbrunn, Switzerland distributed what is thought to be the first two speed open face spinning reels in 1954. There are two sizes, a medium/light and a larger ocean size.     

[jurelometer]

I think y'all are missing the point.  I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner,  I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible.  

-J

They didn't find it impossible 50-65 years ago. In addition to the Italian made models Dr. Rob mentioned and the Dam Quick 275, Frank & Pignard and later Bon Homme, of France manufactured a medium size two speed called the Sup-Matic (707 & 707G). It was distributed in the US by South Bend and sold in Europe under the name Sup-Matic. Federnfabrik and Apparatebau, A.G. of Kaltbrunn, Switzerland distributed what is thought to be the first two speed open face spinning reels in 1954. There are two sizes, a medium/light and a larger ocean size.    

Interesting that there has been so many attempts.

Sorry if I was not clear.  They important term here is useful. Turning a spinner into a two speed is not  the hard part.    The hard part is designing a spinner that can be wound under "big game" loads -which is already a challenge for single speeds. Putting a low speed on a big game spinner takes load off of the gears, but makes it possible to put more (mostly lateral) load on the rotor and shaft,  which is where the structural design tradeoff resides  that makes a spinner a spinner.  

Two speeds on smaller reels (spinners and conventionals) have all been market failures as far as I can see.  This makes sense, as the additional cost and maintenance issues don't offset the rather meager benefits of multiple retrieve rates.  As Robert mentioned, most of us humans are equipped  stock with an infinite variable retrieve system built into our arms.

Once we get into reels that are burly enough to handle loads that benefit from a granny gear, conventional reel design is more compatible with  winding against higher loads.

The  two smaller brands that Joe found  have discontinued their two-speed models with a couple of years,  My bet is on mechanical issues.

On a side note, the paperwork  that I saw online for the ABU 999 / Zangi v3 that Robert mentioned show a gear ratio range from 3:1 to 4:1 for all three speeds.   That seems kind of strange...

-J