First acid wrap and first dragon Scale

[steelfish]

I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

that what I trying to say when I said " it feels like using a spinning rod but with a casting reel", wait till you have a fish at the end of the line so see if you feel any difference.

this might not be a technical answer but maybe its because now the line pulls the blank instead of pushing it down.

[Jeri]

I went to fish the Acid rod today, from shore under windy conditions.   It is too light for that, but my conclusion is that it casts as well as as it did before with a 55 gr (2 oz) iron and it will work as a boat rod.   Made about 20 casts, I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

As said, more questions than answers perhaps............ 

The mis-match of spine orientations has now possibly confused the issue, or it might have been confused before, being a factory 2 piece.... more confusion and questions.

The only positive point is that it dispelled the myth that spiral wrapped rods are poorer casting machines.

[Cor]

I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

that what I trying to say when I said " it feels like using a spinning rod but with a casting reel", wait till you have a fish at the end of the line so see if you feel any difference.

this might not be a technical answer but maybe its because now the line pulls the blank instead of pushing it down.

The tip section of the rod felt weaker and I had to adjust my cast for that. 

I have never used a spinning rod in any serious way so I can't comment on what that feels like.   What I have sometimes done is to experiment with the spine, up or down and that can provides a noticeably stronger side to a blank.    I have used this to determine the "casting" or "pulling" side of the blank I was building.   I don't like soft tipped rods.

It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?

Well at least as Jeri says, I now do know that you can cast perfectly well with such a rod.

What I should do is remove the guides again and turn the tip around to the way it was and re position the them in precisely the same way.    That should tell us if it was the spine or the position of the guides that made it feel softer.   Maybe in winter

[Jeri]

It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?

Just how to achieve that would be a sight to behold.

Having seen the precision cutting and calculations to get a perfect number of wraps on a mandrel, and then the same sheets of carbon wrapped under high pressure, and the end results to achieve a singularly straight and perfectly aligned spine on a blank. I would suggest that it would be near impossible to make such a blank. As at some point you would always have the +1 situation of wraps on the mandrel. Anything else would just be a fudge to obscure the spine or induce a spiralled spine.

[oc1]

Just how to achieve that would be a sight to behold.

It's not a problem for a computer controlled filament winding machine.



You can even do it by hand at home:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27258.0

Sorry the photos are screwed up and you will have to click the links to see them.
-s

[steelfish]

It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?

I dont think it will happen ever, 95% of the market didnt care about spine on their rods, most of that part maybe 50-70% are cheap or middle priced rods, on the expensive ones many guys care more about "the brand" on the blank that the real improvements on them and just few care about how it perform, I might be wrong as always but only few some crazy guys (ohana and few others) can talk for days about spines on the rod.
and if by chance manufacturers come with a blank without spine that would be because they found a way to make them cheaper than the old regular way  

......What I should do is remove the guides again and turn the tip around to the way it was and re position the them in precisely the same way.    That should tell us if it was the spine or the position of the guides that made it feel softer.   Maybe in winter

on your 2nd sentence from your comment you have the answer, Jeri which is our rod guru guy already told us that the number of guides on a blank and the position of them will affect how the blank feels and perform.

no need to unwrap an rewrap those guides on winter, use that time to wrap a new rod 1pc 7ft instead on acid wrap and test it with the guides attached with masking tape before wrapping them and epoxy them.

[JasonGotaProblem]

At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?

[philaroman]

no valid opinions here...  just questions & conjecture:
on a 2-pc, shouldn't the two guides on either side of the ferrule be completely down & lined up?
i.e., can you have the ferrule in the middle of the spiral?
I would imagine it doesn't effect casting, but would twist under heavy load
guessing that any 2-pc w/ butt section too short for complete 180*, is not a good candidate for spiral

Cor, might be a good idea test that before you re-wrap entire tip section

At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?

I'd guess it would be like many equidistant/symmetrical spines,
so no matter where you put the guides, they line up w/ one of them
...there's an idea -- 6 spines every 60*, like split cane

[oldmanjoe]

      If youall can make up your mind on what side to put the guides on after you map the stick , go old school and put them on both sides  with the adjustable tip.        Yer i got rain gear in hand ......        

[Rivverrat]

  
          Now Joe, that rod is just sillier than a turd flute ... Jeff

[philaroman]

  what's that -- glass/boo/wood set-prevention?

[steelfish]

guessing that any 2-pc w/ butt section too short for complete 180*, is not a good candidate for spiral

valid point there, but depending on the rod lenght it could be addressed with no problemo.
but for make a 2pc casting rod a true spiral wraped one the butt sections needs to have the complete transition of the striper guide at 0* to the 3rd or 4th guide at 180* then the tip section of the rod will have all the running guides wrapped at the bottom on the correct spine (ala spinning way).

I actually have a long 9ft Fenwick SST rod (I use them as light surf fishing rods) factory wrapped on spiral guides, all the transition guides are in the butt section with short space of 4" between them and the tip section have the rest guides normally spaced to the tip.
that way the down force of the spiral is always on a steady 1 piece of the blank that cannot slide at anyway, but on a normally spaced 2pc rod IT could a problem to have all the transition guides on the butt section as you said.

[oldmanjoe]

  Boo stick , load and set prevention ...
 I do have old school spirals  , were the stripper  was set on zero or -12 degrees  and we went right hand because when we laid the pole down reel handle up and transition guide up also , not laying on the guide .

[oldmanjoe]

At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?

Good question , I think no " harmonic  changes "

[JasonGotaProblem]

Also, wouldnt trying to avoid any overlap open the possibility of having less than a full wrap? Instead of 'the whole blank has 5 layers but this sliver has 6' it could be 'most of the blank has 5 layers except this sliver with 4.' And wouldnt that then function like a spine? The anti spine...

Again, still speaking from a place of zero experience. Typical.