"Braid ready" -- what does it really mean?

[Decker]

I'd like to get some input about members using braid (or braid-like) super-lines with vintage gear.   When it comes to fishing I'm a weekend warrior on the surf and jetty.  Hoping those that fish more often can provide some practical, experience-based info.  I know braid does not stand up to abrasion well, but I'm more concerned about how it might abrade other materials.  Here are some things I've heard, and am not sure what to believe.

• Older conventionals (Jigmasters, Squidders, etc. ) can be used with heavier braid, 50# plus.  Thinner ones will tend to slip behind the spool.  There is a guy I know of that fishes strictly vintage gear with braid.
• Older penn Spinfishers can be used with 20-30# braid, and for some reason, Fireline fused is preferred over others like Powerpro.
• Rods used for braid should have guides with hardened materials, or they will wear grooves, under pressure and abrasion from braid.
• Have also heard contrary --  heavy 50# plus braid on nickel-plated wire guides works fine, and does not wear out the guides.
• I know about thumb-burning when cast braid on a conventional reel, but there are ways around that.

I was in a very professional tackle shop in Jersey and overheard a customer ask the salesman there (who appeared to be experienced) to put 30# Power Pro on his new Penn 706Z.  The salesman gave his warning, "Well, this reel was not made to be braid-ready."  When I heard that, my silent reaction was, "Baloney!"  Hey, the shop has to make its money; I get that, but it makes me wonder to what extent the term "braid ready" may be a marketing ploy, versus a physical fact.  

What is the real deal?

 

[sharkman]

I run braid on a lot of my vintage tackle, especially z series reels.  My favorite go to reel is a Penn 714z with 15lb pp braid.  The only conventionals I have loaded with braid are vintage 109s with 30lb USA braid. I have used different braids on the reels none really out performed or worked better than others. My only OCD is that I always load the braid on the reels by hand not by winder.

[Cor]

LOL...... I go with the marketing ploy, but it is possible that it can get in between the spool and frame I suppose.   My dad had an old Penn 500 that did that with mono, was a big pain.

Braid abrades your fingers when you try to lay it neatly on a spool using a conventional reel.   In other words, it cuts your fingers till they bleed and probably worse when wet.

Just for the record, at one stage I used stainless steel guides on my rods, they were unbreakable, true, but mono cut grooves in it!

[Rancanfish]

On quite a few of my reels, I'm going back to mono.

For two reasons, one - un-doable knots with my old eyes & two - I really don't like braid cuts.

But,  I will never use anything but braid for bottom fishing. Feeling every little bump is like have antennae on your hands.

I put 14lb Berkeley MonoFil braid on one of my Stradics for distance casting this year, then never used it. 

I guess I'm no help...

[Bryan Young]

I'd like to get some input about members using braid (or braid-like) super-lines with vintage gear.   When it comes to fishing I'm a weekend warrior on the surf and jetty.  Hoping those that fish more often can provide some practical, experience-based info.  I know braid does not stand up to abrasion well, but I'm more concerned about how it might abrade other materials.  Here are some things I've heard, and am not sure what to believe.

• Older conventionals (Jigmasters, Squidders, etc. ) can be used with heavier braid, 50# plus.  Thinner ones will tend to slip behind the spool.  There is a guy I know of that fishes strictly vintage gear with braid.
• Older penn Spinfishers can be used with 20-30# braid, and for some reason, Fireline fused is preferred over others like Powerpro.
• Rods used for braid should have guides with hardened materials, or they will wear grooves, under pressure and abrasion from braid.
• Have also heard contrary --  heavy 50# plus braid on nickel-plated wire guides works fine, and does not wear out the guides.
• I know about thumb-burning when cast braid on a conventional reel, but there are ways around that.

I was in a very professional tackle shop in Jersey and overheard a customer ask the salesman there (who appeared to be experienced) to put 30# Power Pro on his new Penn 706Z.  The salesman gave his warning, "Well, this reel was not made to be braid-ready."  When I heard that, my silent reaction was, "Baloney!"  Hey, the shop has to make its money; I get that, but it makes me wonder to what extent the term "braid ready" may be a marketing ploy, versus a physical fact.  

What is the real deal?

Hi Joe,

I hope this answers your questions.  This is based on my personal experiences.

• Older conventionals (Jigmasters, Squidders, etc. ) can be used with heavier braid, 50# plus.  Thinner ones will tend to slip behind the spool.  There is a guy I know of that fishes strictly vintage gear with braid.

Even 50# braid can get behind the spool.  In fact, I have help other with 40# mono getting behind the spool of a jigmaster.  One just needs to pay more attention while guiding line on the reel or go bigger, irrespective of whether it's braid or mono.  Line slippage behind the spool really depends on the tolerances and gap between the side plates and the spool, not only the line diameter.

• Older penn Spinfishers can be used with 20-30# braid, and for some reason, Fireline fused is preferred over others like Powerpro.

This is just a preference thing.  I have found that Fireline, being fuse, is stiffer than most braided lines.  I'm sure certain people that that stiffness as it reminds them of mono.

• Rods used for braid should have guides with hardened materials, or they will wear grooves, under pressure and abrasion from braid.

There was a problem with old, uncoated braided lines grooving into non-ceramic and non-carbide guides.  Most braids today have some type of coating, and that has resolved the issue of guides being grooved due to the use of braid.  Like Cor mentioned, I have seen guides grooved with mono as well.  So it's the quality of the

• Have also heard contrary --  heavy 50# plus braid on nickel-plated wire guides works fine, and does not wear out the guides.

Please see my response above.

• I know about thumb-burning when cast braid on a conventional reel, but there are ways around that.

I burn my thumb on the very first cast irrespective of mono or braid.  Nothing that pouring water on the line on the first cast doesn't solve.  I also wrap my thumb with flexwrap (Coban), that that also solves that problem.
[/list]

I was in a very professional tackle shop in Jersey and overheard a customer ask the salesman there (who appeared to be experienced) to put 30# Power Pro on his new Penn 706Z.  The salesman gave his warning, "Well, this reel was not made to be braid-ready."  When I heard that, my silent reaction was, "Baloney!"  Hey, the shop has to make its money; I get that, but it makes me wonder to what extent the term "braid ready" may be a marketing ploy, versus a physical fact.  

What is the real deal?

To me, "braid ready" signifies that I can tie the braid right to the spool without any additional means, such as flexwrap, tape,... on the spool before the line goes on so the braid doesn't slip on the spool.  Is it baloney? I wouldn't say that, but maybe a difference of interpretation/understanding of what "braid ready" is intended to mean.

Note that when I am using braid, I commonly wrap my left forefinger and thumb with flexwrap to protect my fingers from cut, because it will cut you.  I may wrap all of my fingers on both hands depending on how I'm fishing, holding the line,...

[FatTuna]

I think that there are definitely changes that have been made over the years to make reels more compatible with braid.

Modern spinning reels use different types of oscillation technology to line braid evenly. For example, the baitrunner D series uses an elliptical gear. The stellas and stradics use worm gears to time it perfectly. I think the reason Fireline is preferred on 704s is because it's super thick. If you watch the oscillation of an old spinfisher, it moves up and down very quickly. Compare that to the movement of a modern Shimano and you'll see how it lays braid more evenly and without crisscrossing as much.

[Decker]

Thanks.  My biggest concern has been that I might groove metal guides. 

[philaroman]

LOL...... I go with the marketing ploy

X2

I don't need manufacturers overcharging me to make a reel "braid-ready" -- I can do that myself at a fraction of the cost.  my concern is whether a reel is BRAID-WORTHY!!!

I think that there are definitely changes that have been made over the years to make reels more compatible with braid.
Modern spinning reels use different types of oscillation technology to line braid evenly. For example, the baitrunner D series uses an elliptical gear. The stellas and stradics use worm gears to time it perfectly. I think the reason Fireline is preferred on 704s is because it's super thick. If you watch the oscillation of an old spinfisher, it moves up and down very quickly. Compare that to the movement of a modern Shimano and you'll see how it lays braid more evenly and without crisscrossing as much.

X2,000,000

LINE-LAY -- more specifically, the mechanism that determines line-lay, is the most important factor because it's permanently built into the reel & cannot be altered.  you may be able to upgrade line rollers & level-wind guides, find various tweaks/mods/pratices to somewhat compensate for loose tolerances, back the braid w/ tape/mono, move the reel to a braid-worthy rod, etc...  but if you can't get braid-worthy line-lay, you're "intercoursed"

P.S., doesn't have to be that "modern":  25-year-old Japanese worm-gear oscillation works beautifully -- better than brand-new Malaysian eliptical

[FatTuna]

I think that surf fishing is a style of fishing where your gear choice is especially important. For one, you are in a fixed location. You have to carry everything with you. You only fish one combo at a time. Weight is a huge consideration. Especially if you are casting lures all day. Your gear has to deal with more abuse. You are fishing in a sand, rock, and saltwater environment. If not properly maintained, a surf reel can get destroyed after a single dunking.

With bass numbers being as low as they are, I like to give myself the best chance of catching a fish. You want something that casts as far as possible. Sometimes fish are really close in but other times they are just out of reach. It's incredibly frustrating to see fish breaking but not be able to get to them. Being able to cast an extra 50 feet could be the difference between getting hit on every cast or catching a skunk. Personally, I like St Croix surf rods a lot. I owned an Avid that was really nice but now I have two 10' Mojos. My next rod with most likely be an 11' Avid Surf. I feel the low rider guides handle braid much better than traditional guides.

Line choice is really important in shore fishing. Some braids like Fireline are very wiry and tough. I don't think I've ever broken 30lb. It's really thick and casts terribly but it's better for fishing around rocks. Other braids like Super Slick are soft and cast really well. The down side is that it's really vulnerable to breaking if you get it near anything abrasive. Might make sense to have two combos. One for jetty fishing and one for the beach. Another way to do it would be to have two spools and just swap them.

[oc1]

You are much more likely to damage an old reel with mono or nylon braid than with spectra/dyneema (PE) braid.  "Braid ready" is a term they invented when Spider Wire and Fireline first came out and they were having trouble with it slipping on the spool.  With mono or nylon you could just loop the line around the spool arbor and it will never slip because of the compression.  Spectra does not stretch or compress.  Spectra can change the line lay on an older spinner simply be being thinner than the mono it was designed for.  It will shift the line lay toward the nose a bit and you have to be careful not to over-fill it.  Still, the casting distance with spectra will be better than it was with mono because of there is less friction and wind resistance.

Dyneema/spectra was a revolutionary change.  Being only one-third the diameter of mono with the same breaking strength, meant that reels using spectra could be much smaller too.  The transition from mono to dyneema was as dramatic a shift as the transition from silk and linen to braided nylon and monofilament.  There were purists who resisted the change from natural fiber to synthetics just as there are those who resist the change from mono to dyneema.

I can't remember the last time I used mono.  It must be 25 or 30 years now and I have never missed it for a moment.
-steve

[Decker]

Thanks for the comments, guys.  I get the difference about how it grips the spool, and how the line lay of the newer spinning reels is a lot tighter.

FT: I appreciate you pointing out the difference between fireline and softer braids.  I'm still working up to buying a modern surf plugging rod  

In addition to what Steve said about mono compression, my guess is that mono holds more moisture, long term, on the spool.  Corrosion near the spindle of a spool seems more likely with mono than braid.

Spool capacity is a huge upside.  Think about filling up a Jigmaster 500 with braid... that could fish some seriously deep water!  On the other hand, a 99 or 501 sized reel holds plenty of braid for most fishing.

[Gfish]

Lots a good info. on this thread. I used to think it was a marketing ploy to get novice anglers to perhaps think :" it says "Braid Ready" I gotta buy this one, 'cause the others I was lookin at didn't say that and I don't wanna wreck my new stuff".
Gfish

[Tiddlerbasher]

More marketing crap really. Some of the original braid wasn't particularly rod ring friendly. Then again some of the original rod rings weren't that robust
Most braids and modern equipment play pretty well together I personally haven't had any problems in the last decade or so.
I think many of the original problems came from tying braid to spools. A simple 3 or 4 wraps around the spool then an arbor knot (or uni whatever) and leave a long tag. If you are paranoid use flex wrap first - but it ain't really necessary

[Swami805]

I bought a "braid ready" spinning reel thinking somehow it would prevent wind knots, no such luck. Not sure why that happens. I use 20lb power pro for fishing small grubs in the surf. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
I remember when braid came out all the hoopla over how it was going to destroy tackle, cut everyones fingers off and just cause mayhem. None of it came to pass and it revolutionized salt water fishing in many ways. Good stuff

[Decker]

I bought a "braid ready" spinning reel thinking somehow it would prevent wind knots, no such luck. Not sure why that happens. I use 20lb power pro for fishing small grubs in the surf. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

The times I have gotten wind knots it has been either because the spool was a bit overfilled, or because there wasn't enough tension on the line as it was wound on the spool.  The wind knot happens when the line comes off the spool several rings at once.  Probably you'd do better with less line.   Hope that helps.