Penn Senator 12/0 tank build, busted spool...

[JnM Fishing]

So after building my 12/0 and adding Adams drag upgrade--- I managed to fractured a black aluminum spool and bent the reel seat... I'm guessing the drag pressure was too much for the brass cross bars and it flexed which in turn caused the spool to bind up which resulted in hardware failure.. we were testing the maximum drag and the scale read 75-80ish before the reel failed (most likely due to frame flex and play). Would anyone know where i could purchase a replacement for a reasonable price? and does anyone make stainless steel posts for a 12/0? the brass ones aren't gonna cut it on this monster.... ;DI have Adam's drag upgrade, a steel 12/0 gear, double dogged with two custom heat treated 1095 High Carbon steel dogs, a Cortez Conversions stainless sleeve and one of Adam's shark arms for my handle ( handle is not yet fully assembled i plan on attaching one of Alan's large knob. Constructive criticism is welcome . 

[bill19803]

who  is   strong   enough  to  fish  that  critter  at  anywhere near  those drag  numbers?

[JnM Fishing]

The Boat I do not plan on pushing it past 50ibs of drag. We were just trying to test to the point of failure for personal research and we found it. 80ibs.... now i need a new spool and reel seat...

[Shark Hunter]

Wow,
Never heard of anyone busting an aluminum spool.
20 to 30 lbs is more than enough.
Mystic has those parts for about $100.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx



"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Cortez_Conversions]

Wow!
So I gotta ask... How'd my gear sleeve look after all that??

[JnM Fishing]

The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless   .

The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.

Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?

[Alto Mare]

I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
I'm thinking something else got jammed in that reel to snap that spool.
Usually the ears on those washers go before the spool does.
Also, I have heard of aluminum spools failing before, but not as you have described.
The aluminum spool will usually spin on its shaft when it fails.
Anything could happen I guess

Sal

[Cortez_Conversions]

The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless   .

The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.

Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?

Yes, there are big plans for the big Senators. We will be releasing a project called the chairmen. This project includes the 10/0 thru the monster 16/0!

[JnM Fishing]

We used a wench on the front of my friend's truck and began to slowly pull with the line tied to the scale and the scale attached to the wench on the opposite side,( probably not the best thing but i wanted to test to the point of failure just to know how far the materials would go before breaking). I purchased a drag upgrade from Adam Fournier at Motive-Fab. I made some modifications to his already amazing upgrade using a dremel and gave a slight surface abrasion to each of the metal spacer washers to add friction and then caked on the Cals.

The scale bottomed out at 75 and we heard a loud ping noise, but i was able to turn the drag a little more and decided to continue, then when we attempted to measure it again after turning the star ever so slightly we began the test and  witnessed the foot flex downward on each side before one of the posts popped free from its screws and the frame had a slight crack running from the top of each side of the spool and terminating on each side at the steel peg in the center of the spool.

[JnM Fishing]

I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
I'm thinking something else got jammed in that reel to snap that spool.
Usually the ears on those washers go before the spool does.
Also, I have heard of aluminum spools failing before, but not as you have described.
The aluminum spool will usually spin on its shaft when it fails.
Anything could happen I guess

Sal

The clicker side of the spool shaft had loosened up and had a little play but i don't think it was able to spin, at least not by hand...

[Tightlines667]

Interesting test and results.  That failure event must have been a bit scary and exciting to witness.  I have heard of 12/0 aluminum spool failures on locked down drags with 250-400lb mono from other local reel techs.  Stand twist, usually resulting in spool rubbing/binding s somewhat common in comparison.  I am curious how the reel was mounted when during your test.  Were the harness lugs bearing any of the load?  Was the reel fully spooled with mono?  Did the line come off of the reel parrellel to the reel seat during the test?  Was this a slow and gradual increase in pressure, or a sudden surge of power?  It would be interesting to see the results of the same test with a bronze spool, and stainless posts.  The thought that occurs to me is that a reel with a drag setting of say 40lb, can experience a much higher load when a sudden surge/spike in pressure occurs.  Could be 30-100% higher depending on various factors.  

Thanks for sharing your results.

John

[Decker]

Pictures???  

[JnM Fishing]

The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless   .

The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.


Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?

Yes, there are big plans for the big Senators. We will be releasing a project called the chairmen. This project includes the 10/0 thru the monster 16/0!

When could we expect to see these available? I know one thing! when they become available I want to be on the top of the waiting list! Maybe some Aluminum side plates as well? Would make one hell of a reel!

[JnM Fishing]

Pictures???  

I have since last week attempted to TIG weld the spool back- It was a complete failure, I sheered off the screws of the post at the bottom rear, bent two bridge screws during the test, I am unsure how to post images on this forum.. I will take some photos when i get home, I do not however have the brass gear sleeve any longer it was tossed after testing and replaced with a stainless from Tom at CC, which survived the testing! The insert of the steel gear now has slight play.

[mo65]

I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.

  It's amazing how hard it is to pull line from a reel under drag...the numbers just don't match up like you'd think. You are tugging with all your back and your partner says "OK...you just hit 25lbs." I'm 6'6" and Weigh 310 lbs...and it's still humbling.