Studying the Mitchell 410

Started by mo65, July 07, 2018, 04:10:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mo65

  Now here is a Mitchell we all slobbered over when I was a kid. We couldn't even afford a new 300 let alone this flagship. Roller bearings? What were they? How did they help? Who cares...they sure look cool!
  40 years later I find a 410 on fleabay for $25 shipped. Finally...my turn to experience nirvana! Well, maybe it's not so big of a deal now, but still, I'll answer some long pondered questions. This reel looks to have only one missing part, that dreaded red plastic bumper on the bail. The red arrow in the eBay pic points to where it should reside. The vintage ad beside the first photo is the one that taunted us as kids. This reel was as far from my reach as a new aluminum ball bat.


 

  Popping off the side plate revealed several types of grease, all applied directly on top of the previous coat. The reel felt smooth...but stiff as a poker...like winding in a snagged shoe.



  Now is a good time to mention these tiny gear post shims. They love to get lost in these globs of grease. These shims are absolutely necessary for proper gear mesh. Every reel is different too, you may find only one, or you may find four. They may be behind the pinion drive, or the main, or both. Whatever you find...record it! Most times, messing up the order will end with a reel that howls like a dog.



  Speaking of globs of grease...out they come. We all greased reels this way back then. Grab some of Dad's wheel bearing grease from the barn and pack it in. I don't remember the old farm grease smelling so bad back then...maybe it has fermented with age? :D



  Here's a look at the roller bearings and associated parts. The red arrow points to a shim I added behind the main gear. It improved the handle feel. The green arrow indicates a third shim was behind the drive pinion! Two stuck together, another surprise to watch out for. I tried a wide range of adjusting shims...behind the main, drive pinion, and rotating head...but nothing was as quiet or smooth as the original shim compliment.



  I oiled the rollerbearings and bushings with CorrosionX HD and used Superlube clear on the gears. It does have a smoother feel than a plain old 300, but there is no free lunch here. Those bearings do nothing to mask the whine of this reel's howling gears. Even when disengaging the AR dog this thing sounds like every other 300 and 301 I've had.



 All in all, this is still a sweet reel. It has an older spool on it though, the four spoked drag knob, when it should have the three spoked knob. An eBay dealer wants 11 bucks for that red plastic bumper...sheesh...I may have to fashion my own. 8)





[
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


foakes

#1
Got a few of these, Mike —

To me, it is amazing what eBay folks seem to be charging for Mitchell, Penn, DQ, and ABU Parts.

But I guess it just Supply and Demand — and what folks are willing to pay.

I am fortunate enough to have a supply to help out just our Alan Tani Ohana.

One side is flat to accommodate proper fit.

N/C.

Sent your Shakespeare deep spool out already this week — so this will be dropped off in Monday's mail.

Up early this morning about 4:45 — outside of my upstairs shop I saw 2 spotted fawns still nursing on Mom, a pair of red foxes drinking water and eating kibbles we put out for them, a pair of life-mating ravens teaching their last weeks fledglings how to hunt and land gracefully, a mountain bluebird nest with two parents, and two large covies of quail with pups.

All just as the sun was coming over the East hill.

80 degrees at 10:30 this morning — working on reels and a trellis for Sue's new trumpet vines.  

The C2K (climb to Kaiser) bike race is happening today.  They start in Clovis, up through Burroughs & Watts Valley, up old Tollhouse Road, through Shaver Lake, up through Big Creek to the North side of Huntington Lake, up to the top of Kaiser Pass at 8900', back down a different route through Auberry and back to the starting point in Clovis.  156 miles, 15,000+ elevation gain.  This ride can be dangerous.  Folks have been killed, and many injured over the years.  We are praying for a harmonious ride for all, as well as the support and emergency volunteers on this hot day in California.

Back to work...

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Midway Tommy

Nice cleanup, Mike. I've got an old General leather punch left over from when we showed horses. With the right thickness of rubber or vinyl it makes great replacement bumpers because it has about any diameter needed to fit the various sizes. I've replace many an unfindable bail arm bumper with it.  :)  
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

El Pescador

Fred,

Wildlife abounds on your property,

Do you see Oriole's from time to time??

With all my time in the high Sierra Nevada Mountains over my  lifetime,

I have never seen a Bullock's Oriole!!!!

Maybe sometime.....

Wayne
Never let the skinny guys make the sandwiches!!  NEVER!!!!

wfjord

Quote from: mo65 on July 07, 2018, 04:10:07 PM
I oiled the rollerbearings and bushings with CorrosionX HD and used Superlube clear on the gears. It does have a smoother feel than a plain old 300, but there is no free lunch here. Those bearings do nothing to mask the whine of this reel's howling gears. Even when disengaging the AR dog this thing sounds like every other 300 and 301 I've had. [/color]

I've wondered if it was normal that the old Mitchells I've owned all had gear noise when cranked.

xjchad

Wow, another incredible tutorial!
Thanks for the history too Mo!
Husband, Father, Fisherman

swill88

Great walk through, thanks...

How does the 410 compare in size to the 300 or 400?

Does the red bumper fit a variety of reels?

Steve...

btw, how's the weather in Ohio today?




mo65

Quote from: foakes on July 07, 2018, 05:45:46 PM
To me, it is amazing what eBay folks seem to be charging for Mitchell, Penn, DQ, and ABU Parts.

But I guess it just Supply and Demand — and what folks are willing to pay.

   My thoughts too Fred, I'd have a hard time paying $11 for a tiny part when I only had $25 total in the whole reel. Thanks for taking some of your valuable time to locate the part. I see you have a "Shaver Lake" near you...maybe I had ancestry make it out that far west! ;D

Quote from: Midway Tommy on July 07, 2018, 05:50:59 PM
I've got an old General leather punch left over from when we showed horses. With the right thickness of rubber or vinyl it makes great replacement bumpers because it has about any diameter needed to fit the various sizes. I've replace many an unfindable bail arm bumper with it.  :) 

   Great idea Tommy. I have one of those punches lurking around here somewhere, I'll add it to my reel maintenance tools. ;)

Quote from: wfjord on July 07, 2018, 06:05:18 PM
I've wondered if it was normal that the old Mitchells I've owned all had gear noise when cranked.

   I'm thinking it must be completely normal for this design...because I have yet to see a quiet one! You don't get this with other Mitchell designs, the 308s are pretty silent. I have a 406 that is pretty sneaky too. :-\

Quote from: swill88 on July 07, 2018, 06:12:33 PM
How does the 410 compare in size to the 300 or 400?

btw, how's the weather in Ohio today?

   The 410 is a 300/400 family member. Same reel as a 400 with roller bearings added. The weather here today is much better...humidity and high heat blew on out...79 and sunny now! 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Midway Tommy

Quote from: swill88 on July 07, 2018, 06:12:33 PM
Great walk through, thanks...

How does the 410 compare in size to the 300 or 400?

Does the red bumper fit a variety of reels?

Steve...

btw, how's the weather in Ohio today?


They are the same size reels. Main differences are high speed of course, the roller bearings, a couple of variations in the bail & line guides, i.e. tungsten & roller. and the bail bumper. A few different models had the bumper, 400, 410, 402, 406, 510 & 500(if you can find one).
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

foakes

The gear noise is normal on these — due to the gears being constructed out of a softer aluminum alloy meld.

The little 408 has a bronze main gear — as do most of the larger Mitchells.  

This is the way they were made — so they could still make a profit by selling millions and millions of reels.

Many times, the gear noise can be lessened or eliminated by shimming the gears with the little thin bronze shims.  No formula — just trial and testing, along with some practice.  Sometimes only 1, sometimes up to 3.  This is enough to back off/adjust the gears to increase smoothness, and eliminate the gear noise.

Compare these Mitchells to other quality reels of the day — ABU/Zebco, Dam Quick, Penn, Shakes, etc. — which mostly featured bronze and steel gears with worm drives — which means basically they would last forever — but we're much more expensive to produce.

These 300 size reels have a grease port at the rear of the body.  If they get noisy or rough, anglers were encouraged by Mitchell to squirt more grease inside.  When they became too rough and noisy — anglers would purchase another Mitchell reel.

A little known fact about Mitchell reels — there is a fairly rare model called a 300C.  It also features roller bearings at the rotor and crank.  A favorite of mine.

No Orioles we have seen up here, Wayne.  We have ID'd about 37 species of birds at various times of the year.  Closest to the Orioles would be the Rufous Sided Towhee, or the smaller Black-Headed Grosbeak.

There used to be flocks of Orioles by the thousands in the Central Valley.  When the farmers started using Uncle Monsanto for their pest control — there were few if any Orioles left.

The Bullocks are occasionally seen up here at 4500' — but I have yet to see one.

Best,

Fred

The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Gfish

Quote from: wfjord on July 07, 2018, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: mo65 on July 07, 2018, 04:10:07 PM
I oiled the rollerbearings and bushings with CorrosionX HD and used Superlube clear on the gears. It does have a smoother feel than a plain old 300, but there is no free lunch here. Those bearings do nothing to mask the whine of this reel's howling gears. Even when disengaging the AR dog this thing sounds like every other 300 and 301 I've had. [/color]

I've wondered if it was normal that the old Mitchells I've owned all had gear noise when cranked.
Yup. The last 3 I've worked on, 2-older 301's, ana 300c sound like that but function well. I spent bout 2 hours playin with the shims ona 301 a couple a weeks ago, still sounds about the same.
Love the design and tolerances on these reels, a bit delicate though.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Swami805

We have a pair of Orioles here that nest in a big bird of paradise next door. They shred a leaf and weave a basket nest out of it. There's plenty of flowering trees with nectar around so we hear them all day. Not sure it's the same species you're talking about but the males are very bright yellow and black and the females a drab tan with some yellow. Pretty sure it's the same pair but who knows for sure, pretty common bird here.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

El Pescador

A friend's parents live in Sonora, CA, about 2,000' elevation, & his Mother has 4 watering jars with a sugary solution for the Oriole's to feed on.

Checking a great birding site:    https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Bullocks_Oriole/overview

They don't live at 4,500' or above, but are found in woodland riparian or streamside areas.

For me, the mountains start at 4,000 feet elevaction.

Need to head back to the valley to view these birds.

Wayne

Never let the skinny guys make the sandwiches!!  NEVER!!!!

happyhooker

That 410 looks great.  I have a 400 and have always liked it.  The whirring of the gears is actually nice to my ear.

I bet Fred's place is great for birding.  When I lived in S. Arizona, it was a crazy good area too.  In Minnesota, we have decent birding, but nothing too much different than most eastern states.  Snowy owl is seen occasionally in winter--kinda special.  No Bullock's Orioles here, but we have Baltimores--they'll come to grape jelly or sugar water feeders, especially in mid-May, then again when the young 'uns start to fly, which should be any day now.

Frank

Swami805

Thanks Wayne, apparently we have hooded orioles here. Learn something every day,and all time thread hijack.  Sorry Mo.
That is a nice reel
Do what you can with that you have where you are