Daiwa Saltist Spinning Reel - Exposed Bearings !

[exp2000]

I recently did a service on a 4500 Saltist spinning reel. While these are advertised one some sites as having a ball bearing bail arm roller, this is untrue - just two hollow plastic bushes. 

I am going to upgrade it with some orange seal ceramic bearings.

But the most peculiar thing about this reel is there is an open gap of several millimetres between the gear casing and the crankhandle shroud. This means that the maingear case bearings are open and exposed to direct saltwater assault. 

I am having a hard time fathoming the rationale of the designers for doing this. Can these bearings be that bulletproof that you can throw all caution to the wind and openly welcome saltwater contact? Nevertheless, I opened the bearing shields and packed them tight with Yamaha Marine Grease for some peace of mind. 

Has anyone ever serviced one of these?

I have a mind to fabricate something like grease impregnated felt pads to act as bearing blankets to shield them from water intrusion. Has anyone else looked at this design feature or have any clues as to why it was ever implemented? 

Alternately can someone offer a better solution which serves to protect the bearings?

I have seen one poster on another forum adapt some O-rings seals to fill the gaps.

[oldtrackster]

I have seen your question asked several times about the gap.  I have never seen a response that seemed to have merit, but I am by no means an expert.  I think this may be the forum link you referred to about the handle gap.  http://www.stripersonline.com/t/693358/fixing-the-handle-gap-on-a-daiwa-saltist-spinner

I have one of these and plan on adding the o rings like this.  The poster in the link is worried about sand intrusion as he fishes from the beach.  These reels definitely have very mixed reviews.

[exp2000]

Yeah, I did a pulldown and posted my review of the reel on the same site:

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/799506/saltist-ball-bearing-line-roller-upgrade/30

I ended up packing the maingear bearings tight with marine grease - that should keep the saltwater at bay for a season. The bearing material has a dark anodized look to it being chocolate brown in colour - guess time will tell. But one is flanged and may be exclusively proprietary manufacture (read expensive to replace). 

I am going to replace the bail arm bushes with boca orange seal ceramic bearings. I have since contacted Daiwa Auatralia who have now modified their website to now read: "Titanium nitride line roller" deleting the words "ball bearing" - wonder how many other people got caught by that one 

Might have to go with the O ring idea after all but it's going to be a PIA to tweak the right size - even the guy who came up with that idea had to take a hammer to one of the O rings to make it fit! 

Guess this mystery will have to remain the property of the Daiwa designers. It's almost like the design is unfinished and they were unable to complete it because someone from the budget department pulled the chain on them 

Thanks for your reply - good to know I am not alone. Like you say people either seem to lovem or hatem but my pulldown may shed some light on that. BTW the quality of the internals looked quite good. Pity such a good reel is spoiled by a couple of odd quirks

Good to hear from you 

[oldtrackster]

Just read your review, thank you for the link.  You are probably aware but a site sponsor with a sub forum here (smooth drag) carries them and she is excellent to work with.  I upgraded to carbon tex and may go back and get some upgraded metal washers after reading that thread.

[exp2000]

Hi,

Yes, have ordered from Smooth Drags for other reels. Kit out all my ABUs with them - helps when a 7 foot shark eats your lure trolled behind a kayak (recent experience) 
Yes, Dawn sure is a sweetie but did not know they were a site sponsor though!

Having not fished with the reel myself, I wonder how you found the performance of the standard drag washers and did you notice any major improvements after inserting the carbontex?

If you want to have a go yourself, get some 2000 grade wet and dry sand paper, you could lap the existing drag washers on a flat glass surface- shouldn't take too much effort. Buffing with polishing compounds may acheive further improvement but will depend in part on the fabric of the metal.

[alantani]

Just read your review, thank you for the link.  You are probably aware but a site sponsor with a sub forum here (smooth drag) carries them and she is excellent to work with.  I upgraded to carbon tex and may go back and get some upgraded metal washers after reading that thread.

no site sponsors here. just helping out a friend.

[Nessie Hunter]

Most Spinning reels have some gap at that location. 
Even a small gap will allow water in..
I dont think a felt washer or O ring would be the salvation to that???
Anything that is tight there will rub the handle and cause other issues.

I would pack the bearing with Yamaha Marine Grease or other suitable 'Marine' Grease and spread a little extra around.  Then keep an eye on it to see if its better??
Grease seems to repel water and trap sand...

FYI;
I do the Reels for an avid surf angler, he always carries 2 rigs.  One Is always in a holster at/below waist level as he wades out to chest deep Surf Water!!! 
Ergo, one reel is always under water in the surf zone (churned up sand & minutia debris etc).. 
I have tried to seal out this sand etc..   No luck.....
I can tell where he is fishing by the color of the sand inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Depending on what type of fishing you do and 'Where'.. 
Servicing  the Reels accordingly, is the only safe bet...... 





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[Alto Mare]

Most Spinning reels have some gap at that location. 
Even a small gap will allow water in..
I dont think a felt washer or O ring would be the salvation to that???
Anything that is tight there will rub the handle and cause other issues.

I would pack the bearing with Yamaha Marine Grease or other suitable 'Marine' Grease and spread a little extra around.  Then keep an eye on it to see if its better??
Grease seems to repel water and trap sand...

I tried to replace the felt washer by the handle with a thicker felt washer that I made and it created friction with the bearing. I agree with the above comment by Nessie!

[exp2000]

Hi Nessie,

Most Spinning reels have some gap at that location. 
Even a small gap will allow water in..

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/693358/fixing-the-handle-gap-on-a-daiwa-saltist-spinner

I refer you to the above thread for pictures of the GAP  in question. Granted there must be some gap but typically it is effectively shielded by overlapping collars or grease impregnated felt pads as in the old spinfisher. I have never seen an open gap like this in any other reel that would allow DIRECT splash onto the bearings.

Anything that is tight there will rub the handle and cause other issues.

Agreed, but in this case you are caught between the Daiwa and the deep blue sea  which is why owners of these reels are seeking solutions. Greased felt pads will lubricate a round crankshaft offering minimal resistance - unfortunately this one is hexagonal in profile 

I would pack the bearing with Yamaha Marine Grease or other suitable 'Marine' Grease and spread a little extra around.  Then keep an eye on it to see if its better??
Grease seems to repel water and trap sand...

This is exactly what I have done - but question: Why should I have to compensate for a fundamental design flaw which should never have existed in the first place.

Depending on what type of fishing you do and 'Where'.. 
Servicing  the Reels accordingly, is the only safe bet...... 

The reel will be used for ocean kayak fishing where saltwater splash is a fact of life. It was chosen for it's high line retreive which distinguishes it from other reels in it's calss.

[exp2000]

Hi,

I tried to replace the felt washer by the handle with a thicker felt washer that I made and it created friction with the bearing. I agree with the above comment by Nessie!

There is no felt washer ex-production on this reel - at least not on the ones currently on offer . Perhaps you are thinking of a different reel 

[Alto Mare]

Yes, I was talking about Penn and agreing with Nessie about the reels that do have a felt washer, I only use Penn reels. All of my spinning reels ( I do have a lot of them) have greased bearings not oiled, some get dunked quite a bit but keep on going.

[oldtrackster]

My first time to fish the reel will be a tuna trip in the gulf of Mexico Oct 21.  I change all my drags to carbontex when I get the reel so I won't have a comparison for you.  I will tell you it has the thin paper like material for drag washers. 

Mr. Tani thank you for the clarification on the site sponsors.

[exp2000]

My first time to fish the reel will be a tuna trip in the gulf of Mexico Oct 21.  I change all my drags to carbontex when I get the reel

The stock drag washers are a made from a fibre composite material and are precisely 1 millimeter thick - hence my interest in their performance.

I have a favour to ask of you.

The drag stack is secured by a 30mm daimeter hexagonal internal wire clip which is easily manipulated by fingernail making the stack very easy to swap out in only a couple of minutes.

I have no doubt the carbontex will make an improvement but given their substantial thickness, it would be interesting to see how the stock ones perform.

Perhaps you cold take this opportunity to test them on your trip and report on a comparison between the two.

I would suggest rubbing a smear of Cal's grease or similar on the metal drag faces.

PS. I am looking for  begging emoticon to include in this post but seems there is a gap  

[exp2000]

From another forum:

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/698204/field-trial-of-saltist-spinner-big-thumbs-up

I did only one thing to prep my reel. I wiped the factory grease off the drag discs and replaced it with Cals grease. By the way, we had a great many reels available to us on this trip.

The expensive (and highly regarded) Daiwa Saltist (Saltiga) SA-Z6000GTs had identical drag materials and despite their fine reputation they were ALL sticky.

ALL benefited by cleaning the discs and regreasing with Cals. Properly greased, both the Saltist and the Saltiga drags were silky smooth.

Looks like the stock drag might be OK 

[exp2000]

After coming up with a solutiuon to the handle gap problem, I finally got to test out the Saltist.

I accidently hooked up on a large winged creature whilst trying for a cobia. It proceeded to tow me about a kilometer before the twisty finally pulled free. However this provided a good test for the reel. The amount of drag the reel can generate is dangerous on a kayak    But it still felt sticky even after greasing with Cal's. But wait, there's more!

Having just ordered some very fine grade wet and dry sand paper, I thought i would lap in the metal drag washers. Disassembly revealed some very uneven wear marks. Clearly the surfaces of the pressed metal washers were less than even. A thin wear ring on one washer revealed that only a fraction of it's potential was being utilised. Starting with 300 grade to remove gross landmass and obtain a flat working surface, I lapped the washers on a glass sheet backing.

After blood eventually appeared in the water, I realised that wearing gloves might be a good idea while I still had some skin left on my fingers  

I progressively worked through 800 grade, then 3000 and finally 5000. At this point, were the washers a bit  bigger, they would have made excellent shaving mirrors    I also lapped the fibre washers while down to 800 grade while I was at it.

After regreasing and assembly, I peeled some line off by hand. The drag felt completely smooth even at settings approaching lockdown – very impressive!

Can't wait to get out and try it on a big fish