4/0 senator LH

[milne]

OK, just a real newbie question here.
Purchased a LH 4/0, but there's alot of the chrome work pretty well toast, So I've had another 4/0 senator sitting in my work shop for a while
stripped down ready to clean up, had it for years never used it. it has a aluminium spool and it's a wide one, as marked on the stand. So I was looking at that and decided to swap out the chrome rings onto my LH 4/0.  The ones I need are fine, mission accomplished.
The wide reel, isn't marked differently on the reel, just has thicker posts and a numbered stand with W.
Was this generally right with these wide reels ?   as the LH one I'm working on is marked LH on the side plate ?

Second question, is there any way to identify approximately its age via the tail plate picture ?
This is the only one I have in the 4/0 range with this type of tail plate.
The stand is stamped 30-113, it's pretty much toast as well really, I'd like to get a new one of those then the reel will be quite presentable.
Is that something to get in touch with mystic parts for ?
I haven't ever had to replace anything yet on any of my senators I fish with, but might try to pretty them up a bit now.
Here's the tail plate of the LH 4/0

Col

[RowdyW]

Stands for 113's are no longer available from Penn. You will have to find them on the open market as used or NOS. It sounds like you are working on two different reels. Senator 4/0's were never made in a wide version. You must have a black plated Senator & a maroon plated Special Senator HLW. They are two different model reels of which only a few parts are interchangable. You will notice that the right outer ring on the Special Senator has a cutout to clear the hump by the crank which the Senator 4/0 does not. That's because of different size gears & ratios between them.           Rudy

[milne]

Thanks Rudy,
                  Very interesting !
The 4/0 Left hand reel has black coloured side plates, of which I took the inner rings of the maroon 4/0 special which fitted the black one.
The maroon outer rings, wouldn't fit, as they have the holes in them, sort of pressed in, and the side plates have countersunk holes which
they press into, I did notice the cut out on the gear box side.
I only needed the inner rings and they swapped over no problem.
The maroon "wide spool" reel, is marked as a 13h special, but it has a wide aluminium spool and a reel seat marked 30-113W
The posts are noticeably thicker than the standard size one.
I honestly cant remember where and when I got the "wide" 113H from, it's been sitting stripped down for quite some time.

Rudy, what would the reel seat marked 30-113W be from ?

Col

[RowdyW]

It is on the 113hlw which is the correct reel for it. A Special Senator standard width is a 113h or113hl. The Senator 113 has black plates & 113h, 113hl, & 113hlw Special Senators have maroon to red plates, never black. The hlw is just the wider version of a h or hl.

[sdlehr]

Interesting that you were able to swap inner rings. That wouldn't have worked on a 114, the spacing on the stand/post screws is different..... I never tried it on a 113/h.

[RowdyW]

Sid, as far as I know the rings & stands are interchangable between a 114 &114h. The 114hw stand can also be interchanged if you want to widen either but you will have a tough time finding a wide spool for a 114 

[sdlehr]

Sid, as far as I know the rings & stands are interchangable between a 114 &114h. The 114hw stand can also be interchanged if you want to widen either but you will have a tough time finding a wide spool for a 114  

I was afraid you were going to say something like this. I have a 114h half-frame that won't fit all the holes in a 114 - I think - it's been a few years and I might be misremembering (aka forgetting). I can check tonight and try to clarify what I might have been thinking. My recollection is that two of the holes are different....

[RowdyW]

Are you maybe confusing early 115 and late 115L 9/0's? They have a difference on one of the holes.

[sdlehr]

Are you maybe confusing early 115 and late 115L 9/0's? They have a difference on one of the holes.

Reasonably sure I'm thinking 114/h, and you saw it the first time you were at my house and told me the screw spacing was different - and I felt foolish assuming it would be the same - It was a Penn half-frame, they didn't make one of them for the 9/0, and even if they did, I've never had one. It was either a 113h or a 114h half-frame..... and we found out ^ that the 113h spacing is the same as the 113, so I'm thinking again that what I found was that a 114h half-frame didn't fit my 114 plates properly. Stay tuned, I'll figure this out tonight.

[thorhammer]

Hey Sid, is yours an H2? Theyre holed differenty as I noticed looking for 114H rings on Mystic. Note,the 114H also uses 2-114 inner rings.


Rudy, the 113 rings, inner, are interchangeable: I had nice boneyard after a bunch of Cortez builds and was able to spruce up my old ebay headboat 113's with the leftover rings. As you note, on both, the humpy ring fits the bigger gear well of the H series.

[sdlehr]

Hey Sid, is yours an H2? Theyre holed differenty as I noticed looking for 114H rings on Mystic.

Not positive until tonight, but I remember buying the half-frame by itself - the screw anchors pulled out. I don't think it was an H2, but I haven't looked at it in years..... pretty sure it's graphite....

[milne]

It is on the 113hlw which is the correct reel for it. A Special Senator standard width is a 113h or113hl. The Senator 113 has black plates & 113h, 113hl, & 113hlw Special Senators have maroon to red plates, never black. The hlw is just the wider version of a h or hl.

Thanks Rudy,
 Mine must be a Franken reel then, definately only a 113h special maroon, but has been fitted with thicker posts, and aluminium wide spool.
Yes, definately inside rings swap between the two, outer has the gearbox cut out, but as I said, the outer rings on the tail plate wouldn't fit either
because of countersinking pressing.

Sid,  I wont be using either the thicker posts or the wide spool again if you needed for a project ?

Col

edit  sorry Syd, just re read, yours is a 114........

[RowdyW]

Col, your 113h is a 113hw. The plates were never marked for a hl or hlw. Penn used the same plates for the 113h,113hw hl, & hlw all marked h. It's not a frankinreel. Early 113hw's used 5 posts & later 113hlw's used 1 post & 2 aluminum crossbars.

[sdlehr]

OK, I'm home from work, I've eaten dinner, and I've figured out what I was trying to remember. The 114h half-frame will work on a 114, but there will not be room for all of the screws in the side plate. You'll have empty screw holes on the side plates - the middle one previously used by the stand, and each of the lowermost posts. The half-frame from the 114h has only 4 screw holes, while the 114 side plate wants 7 screws - 3 for the stand and four posts (the top post remains as original).  One could drill and tap the half frame for the additional screws - which would be more aesthetic than functional - but there's really not much point in putting a 114h half-frame on a 114 anyway. I dropped this a few years ago, because the screw anchors were backing out - I may try to epoxy them in place while I've got this back out of the drawer. Anyway, mystery solved.

[RowdyW]

That frame has to be a very late USA frame which is the same as a 113H2 Chinese frame or is a H2 frame. The graphite frame you have is the same as a H2 frame which is desegnated as an (n) frame for new style which use the 5 hole (n) rings & (n) plates. I have a Tiburon frame for a 114h that I had 114 6/0 side plates on for about 4 years. Just recently I changed the plates & spool to a 114H setup. All 8 holes line up with either set of plates.