Daiwa Black Diamond / Regal-D

[Silvers]

Today i will show you some differents between us-market and the rest of the western world.

There was a time around late 70s till early 80s, Daiwa produced hundreds of reel series for every market.
But not many know, that most of this series are near the same with only small differences.

Here is one of the best examples.

For the US-market, Daiwa released the Regal-D Series in the early 80s, a black colored version of the already known Silver X-Series.
The Regal D-Series was labeled as D1000 to D7000.
The only difference between the original silver X and the black ones was the already implemented silent AR in the blackys, which wasnt in the original silvers, but could be upgrade.

Outside US the Regal-D wasnt sold with the same name, they was sold as "Black Diamond" in a different box, and labeled exactly same like the silver ones (1000X to 7000X)

This series was firstly introduced 1979 in UK with the first 4 sizes



1980 comes the larger ones


and 2 special match versions for the UK-market (only the spool is different which is plastic)



Here is a screen from the complete series of the Black Diamonds (also with the 2 special match spools)



And now we come to some strange things.

There was the silver X which is well known, a second version of the X called X2 (the 2 stays for 2 ball bearing, the original X have only 1 at the pinion), the blacky ones called Regal-D or Black Diamond....and there was another one called XBZ.
All of them are near the same with just small differences, and all of them can be easily upgraded to silent AR and 3 ball bearings.

Here are some screens of those.

2600X, 2600X2, 2600X Black Diamond


2600XBZ, 2600X Black Diamond



For the US-market there was also a special...the Bass Spin D1300B (from Regal-D1300)



Conclusion of all them....the world of daiwa's vintage reels are more complicated as we ever think.

[mo65]

   Very interesting Silvers...thanks for posting.

[Gfish]

The Japanese corporations have some great marketing strategies. One of which is flooding the market with quality designed products. To me, back in those days; great design, but low quality materials.
I have a GS 3 with the same handle as your DI300B. Great design, almost too easy to fold in.
What I really love about mine(and it looks like all the models you posted) is the AR system that extends from the bottom(lever)up on a shaft to just under the rotor(pawl & AR gear).
Cool post Silvers, thanks.

[Silvers]

Well, its difficult to compare a reel of the 50s with worm gear design to an reel of the 70s with excenter gear design and also skirted spool.
Metal materials like bronze was a lot cheaper in the 50/60s as in the 70s and later.
A lot of reel manufacturing was simply handmade, no problem with lower margin as today.

As example, the D.A.M. Quicks from the good old days (110-550) have nice materials for the gear, but the gear is very low efficient at bigger force. At some point this gear will not work anymore, doesnt matter of which materials they are made from.
I had a Quick 5001 at my catfish-tackle, and the reel gave up at a 104lb catfish....no chance to wind.

Excenter gears are more effencient, friction is quit better as worm gears. You can wind where the worm gear already cant anymore, also with lower materials like zink-aluminum.

The old D.A.M. goes down because they didnt move with times, there was no progress at their products anymore. Last step was outsourcing this production to Okuma, but too late.
Companys like Daiwa and some others break walls in every market since the early 70s with mass production, good design, quality and good price for near any fishermen.
Those reels from the 70s and early 80s are definitly reels for a lifetime.
Same goes for Shakespeare with the Ambidex Series, which are in real Ohmori reels, very good quality reels.
The old designed Quicks are far behind them in any way.

[xjchad]

Great info, thanks for the Daiwa education!  

[festus]

Thanks for all this useful information.  I am really impressed with the 1000C I serviced yesterday.  Takes a while to sort out all these Daiwa models I'm unfamiliar with.

[Silvers]

The 1000C is definitly the better one of the tiny silvers, the 500/700C are far behind them.
Maybe get a 1600/2600C, workhorses for lifetime.  Throw them in the mud for few years, dig them out again and go directly fishing with..they will do this job without any problem.

Actually i try to clarify, if the silver D (Daiwa called them DX in his catalogues) was ever sold in the us-market.
I think maybe, but i have never seen any of them in the us-bay or other us-sites.

The other thing are the 3 first pre-models of the silver series, which was labeled as A-series (2500A, 400A, 7000A).
Sadly there isnt any information about those reels out there, i have only an 1974 catalogue where this reels was introduced and thats it.
The 2500/4000A are so far similar with the later C, but the 7000A is a bit different with his snapoff-spool.
Very hard to get one, just saw them 2 times maybe in 5 or more years.

Some sublevel between A and C are from time to time in the bay, labeled with a C, but have some features which only had the A.
I would give a lot to get a 7000A in a reasonable good condition.

[foakes]

Well, its difficult to compare a reel of the 50s with worm gear design to an reel of the 70s with excenter gear design and also skirted spool.
Metal materials like bronze was a lot cheaper in the 50/60s as in the 70s and later.
A lot of reel manufacturing was simply handmade, no problem with lower margin as today.

As example, the D.A.M. Quicks from the good old days (110-550) have nice materials for the gear, but the gear is very low efficient at bigger force. At some point this gear will not work anymore, doesnt matter of which materials they are made from.
I had a Quick 5001 at my catfish-tackle, and the reel gave up at a 104lb catfish....no chance to wind.

Excenter gears are more effencient, friction is quit better as worm gears. You can wind where the worm gear already cant anymore, also with lower materials like zink-aluminum.

The old D.A.M. goes down because they didnt move with times, there was no progress at their products anymore. Last step was outsourcing this production to Okuma, but too late.
Companys like Daiwa and some others break walls in every market since the early 70s with mass production, good design, quality and good price for near any fishermen.
Those reels from the 70s and early 80s are definitly reels for a lifetime.
Same goes for Shakespeare with the Ambidex Series, which are in real Ohmori reels, very good quality reels.
The old designed Quicks are far behind them in any way.

---------------------------------------

Appreciate your great information as well as your opinions.  Thanks!

Daiwa is a good product -- and the metal bodied reels from the 70's are a good example of their quality.

Here are a few personal opinions -- with slightly different viewpoints --

Longevity is important to many of us reel repair guys.  While a DAM reel with a steel worm drive, coupled with a phosphor-cut bronze main and an oversize ball bearing, and other heavy duty components -- might stop winching at some point -- it will not fail or be ruined like a softer alloy geared reel.  No reel should be completely relied upon to bring in a large fish.  Other factors are the proper rod, the angler's technique and skill of using a proper "pump up & crank down" gaining of line on a large fish, the line, controlling the fish -- and maybe just realizing that the wrong reel is being used.  A reel is more of a line retrieval device than a winch.

But a DAM reel, just like a Penn Spinfisher, a Shakespeare worm drive, an ABU/Zebco Cardinal -- will just stop at some point, if being used beyond engineering or the angler's capabilities --  but it will not result in stripped gears made of softer alloys.  It will just live to fish again with seldom any permanent self-destruction damage.

Handmade assembly is good, and if properly engineered -- an efficient system of manufacturing.  A little more expensive than robots, because folks are being employed to skillfully assemble the parts -- but the real measure of this is that a part can be replaced.  There are no riveted assemblies, minimum of plastics and graphites -- and if properly planned and executed over decades -- will be repeatable without needing to come out with a few thousand different models of reels -- like Daiwa has done. 

And then, after all of those thousands of Daiwa models -- we find that parts are seldom available after a very few years.  DAM, ABU, PENN, and others -- provided parts for decades on most models.  And these reels are repairable, restorable,  capable, and are not made to become obsolescent -- they are made to continue functioning for a lifetime, or two.


Plus, Daiwa reels are much sleeker, and more attractive than the old DAM's, Penn's, ABU/Zebco's, and Shakes.  A lot of folks do not like these old-fashioned ugly reels.  It is personal preference.

Also, I will be boxing up approximately 600-800 pounds of new old stock Daiwa reel parts in a couple of weeks.  These are from an old tackle repair shop that closed down 20 years ago.  If anyone is interested, these will be sold for approximately 3 cents on the dollar.  $2000.

And also, Silver -- if you still have any of those old DAM Quick reels that you are tired of, or simply disgusted with -- such as the 5001, or others -- I will buy them from you.

Lots of different viewpoints -- and they all catch fish at the end of the day.

These are just my personal thoughts -- based on a little experience in both reel work and business marketing.

All the Best,

Fred

[Gfish]

Ist das gute?
Silvers this thread may take off with lots of opinions and controversy. I personally like it like that, I learn more.

I do think my GS 3('78?) is a great reel and possibly will last a lifetime. I'm rough on my equipment and have severly damaged 3 diawa products(2 reels & 1 rod) back in the 70's as a young man. But, when it comes down to toughness (you know, something you can drop on a rock) I'll take the DAM Quicks. I do think the Diawa's have some great design engineering, just like Shimano's.
I did destroy one 110 by backing my car over it once(drinking & fishing don't mix sometimes).

[happyhooker]

All-in-all, an interesting discussion.  Especially second foakes (Fred) on the don't use a reel as a winch comment.  I can't tell you the number of spinning reel manuals, old and new, I have looked at which emphasize the pump and crank technique.

Frank

[Midway Tommy]

I totally agree with Fred's worm gear assessment. While reels with tight tolerances and quality excenter gear design material may be somewhat smother working while fairly fresh and new they all, at some point, seem to show some wear and looseness. I have a box full of junk bevel gear reels, most made in Asia but some earlier European made examples, and of which there are at least a half dozen or more Daiwa C Series', with worn or broken gear teeth. I have yet to come across a quality worm gear drive spinner where quality materials were used in the gear manufacturing that that had excessively worn or broken main or pinion gear teeth. Generally, the anti-reverse dog will fail long before any gear teeth will fail.

I will take a quality worm gear specimen any day over a bevel/excenter gear reel.     

[mo65]

  I can't tell you the number of spinning reel manuals, old and new, I have looked at which emphasize the pump and crank technique.

   Agreed...you can catch some mighty big fish on 20lb. line and 5lb. of drag if you utilize the rod.

I have yet to come across a quality worm gear drive spinner where quality materials were used in the gear manufacturing that that had excessively worn or broken main or pinion gear teeth.       

   Unfortunately I have. The picture below is from a Penn 430ss I bought on fleabay..."horse crankin'"...that's what we call it. It took some serious twisting to do that. Am I supposed to believe a zink gear would fare better?

[Shark Hunter]

I was raised on Daiwa reels. Still have quite a few.
Now I can see the big picture. I go for Big Fish, and a Daiwa is still in the line up, but I put Quicks, Penn and even Zebco in the line up now.
All these reels have their limitations. It is all about preparation and fighting the right way.
I wouldn't be so Bold to say that one is far superior to the other.
Proper Maintenance is Key.
I am regularly fishing a Quantum Cabo 120 series for Sharks and am impressed with this reel.
Too bad it is already Discontinued.
If I want to pull the trump card, I'll Kayak a bait out on a 14/0.
It is all about Preparation and Finesse in the battle if you go light.
BG 8000, Quantum Cabo and Boca 100's and 120's, Penn 9500, Battle 8000 and Senators for Back up, Quick 270. Name your poison.

[Midway Tommy]

  I can't tell you the number of spinning reel manuals, old and new, I have looked at which emphasize the pump and crank technique.

   Agreed...you can catch some mighty big fish on 20lb. line and 5lb. of drag if you utilize the rod.

I have yet to come across a quality worm gear drive spinner where quality materials were used in the gear manufacturing that that had excessively worn or broken main or pinion gear teeth.       

   Unfortunately I have. The picture below is from a Penn 430ss I bought on fleabay..."horse crankin'"...that's what we call it. It took some serious twisting to do that. Am I supposed to believe a zink gear would fare better?

Never seen such a thing.    It's pretty clear that whoever previously used that 430SS didn't have a clue about the limitations of a reel that size!    The dim-wittedness of some people is amazing.    They obviously deserve what the get. 

[foakes]

 I can't tell you the number of spinning reel manuals, old and new, I have looked at which emphasize the pump and crank technique.

  Agreed...you can catch some mighty big fish on 20lb. line and 5lb. of drag if you utilize the rod.

I have yet to come across a quality worm gear drive spinner where quality materials were used in the gear manufacturing that that had excessively worn or broken main or pinion gear teeth.      

  Unfortunately I have. The picture below is from a Penn 430ss I bought on fleabay..."horse crankin'"...that's what we call it. It took some serious twisting to do that. Am I supposed to believe a zink gear would fare better?

This is a good conversational thread -- and it brings out many great points that are useful to remember -- before we toss out an old friend for a new one.

Personally, having corresponded over the years with a few of the chief engineers and designers from D.A.M., in Germany -- most have passed on now -- but what they had to share was, and still is -- an amazing respect for the products they manufactured for the angling world.

These guys were from generations of watchmakers, machinists, and tool manufacturers.  Precision was their banner -- as was old fashioned simplicity coupled with experience and common sense designs.  

They expected any reel off the line, after testing and inspection - from their plant in Gunzenhausen -- to not only provide a lifetime of angling for the customer -- but that the quality would be there to pass it forward to the next generation.

Just take, as an example -- a basic worm drive gear/main gear/crank axle shaft/and main bearing assembly --

The bearing is oversized, of a highest quality.  The worm drive is simple, effective, and made of machined steel.

The bronze main gear is designed to be smoother than steel against steel meshing -- but more importantly, if the reel is stressed beyond its limitations by conditions or a novice angler -- the only part that MIGHT need replaced would be the bronze gear -- because it would distort and the steel would not (dissimilar metals work together for smoothness as well as economical and possible repair).

All of this is enclosed within a precisely machined aircraft grade aluminum casing -- supported simply and effectively.

Not pot metal, plastic, graphite, or pressed tin.

And not pretty to most modern anglers -- but like an old 60 year old tool -- it is made to work effectively and capably -- without needing replacement in a few years.

It is the skill and experience of an angler that ultimately chooses the proper tackle set-up for their application.

Heck, it is mostly the angler -- because many Sailfish are caught with fly rods and fly reels.

Just a few personal opinions.

Best,

Fred