"C" grade spinning reels.....combo throw-a-ways

[Crow]

    Here's a quick walk through on those "cheaper" reels.....usually found on the "combo" outfits, at Wally World.  There are several "styles", but the one that I shown here........A "Berkley" branded one......has done real well for us "in the sand". There are 5 of us in the "Snowbird Fishing Club", that spend the winter at Dauphin Island, Alabama, and only 2 of us do...or ever HAVE done....any fishing, before, so, it's been a pretty steep "learning curve" for some of the group !
     This "Berkley Fusion"....made in China (of course), is also found "branded" as a "Shakespeare", and, just this year, as an Abu Garcia "Bruiser". Most have an aluminum spool ( the Shakespeare has a plastic one ), and is seen as both a "2 bearing" reel, as well as a "1 bearing" reel ....I guess those would be "C-" reels ?!
      Since I haven't mastered the "pictures under the photo" thing, I'll try to describe....then show the pix.

       The initial teardown starts by removing the drag tension knob, and pulling the spool....removing the handle shaft knob, and sliding the shaft out of the reel.
        Then, remove the rotor nut lock screw, and the rotor nut....this has "left hand threads", and is "just a bit tighter" than finger tight (or, at least, it SHOULD be !)

[Crow]

   Now, the "anti reverse" shifter (the white, nylon bushing, with the thin, wire "loop" around it) can be slid off the pinion shaft....there is a thin shim between it, and the ball bearing that sets under it. Note that the "loop" in the wire sets over a peg on the "rocker arm".
   My next step is to remove the anti reverse "knob" from the real of the reel, and then remove the "fake chrome" rear cover. When that cover is removed, you can then remove the 4 screws that hold the gearcase together. When the screws are out....with a bit of "wiggling", and the help of a small screwdriver, or knife blade....the gearcase can be "split".  There will either be a "real" bearing in the gearcase half you just removed....or a "plastic bushing" on the "2 bearing " reels, sometimes the ball bearing is in one half...and sometimes in the other ! I guess it depends on which gal put it together !? In the "one Bearing" reels, there will be a "plastic bushing" in BOTH gearcase halves.
   With a bit of "wiggling" the main gear can be lifted out....there will be at least one, and sometimes more...thin shims between the "bearing" and the gear, so when you remove the bearing...watch for them !
    Then, after removing the two screws located under the anti reverse shifter, the pinion gear and main shaft can be removed.....sliding the brass pinion off the shaft gives enough "wiggle room" to tip the shaft enough, to lift the eccentric cam follower off the pin on the eccentric gear, and the main shaft can be pulled out...rearward.

[Crow]

    This reel was "new", and had never been fished, and the ball bearings were WAY dry....one had "no" grease, and the other "just a bit"....the nylon bushing was pretty dry, as well. The "ball bearings that come in these reels are steel (not "stainless'), and have no shields, or seals...so any saltwater  and / or sand that gets in will trash them out , in short order ! In a "fished" reel, this is where everything would be "cleaned up"....I usually give the lube a good spraydown with WD-40...let it "soak" for a while, then wash it off , and out, with a soapy water solution (Dawn dish soap works ok, and so does either "ZEP", or "Simple Green" degreaser) after the wash up, I use "Brake Cleaner", "Carb Cleaner", or "Parts Cleaner (the aerosol cans, found in the auto section).....whatever is available, and whatever is cheaper...to give everything a quick "rinse off" spray.
    When the parts are dry...inspect the "ball bearings" for rust / sand....clean it out , if you can....if you can't, or, if the bearing is too rusted to spin, I measure the bearing (it'll be metric), and do a search on E-bay, There are lots of "cheap" stainless ball bearings available (from China)....get the ones that are "shielded"...that helps keep the sand out...and the grease in ! When I do replace the bearings (with a "pre fishing service", and proper care....rinsing after every use, and a teal down and re lubing after about two months (I fish here about 4 months, in the winter...so I do it about "halfway" through my season, and again at the end, I can get two "years" of service from the originals), I always use a ball bearing to replace the nylon bushing....making a "3 bearing " reel out of it.....it's not any smoother...or stronger...but the "extra shields" helps keep the crud out, and the nylon bushings tend to "wallow out" if used on the "handle side" of the reel. Some of the guys "wind right", some wind "left"....and one even holds the reel "upside down", and winds "backwards " !!, so having a bearing on both sides of the gearcase makes things last a bit longer!
     Here's where all kinds of different opinions start coming out....grease ! Some like the "Marine Grease", some "Cals", some just the generic "reel grease" sold at Wally World. On these cheap reels....and as often as I'm "into them", I don't think it really matters , all that much, WHAT you use ! I "pack" as much into the bearings as I can, then start putting things back together......just reverse the teardown procedure !  The teeth on all three gears get a good "brushing" with grease, as does the inside of the eccentric cam, and the "face" of the eccentric gear. And, speaking of the eccentric gear....on "some " of the reels...not all !... there is a screw holding the gear in place.....it really can't "go anywhere', without the screw, so, if it's NOT there...no worries!
     Before I install the screws into the gearcase......I always turn them "backwards" a bit, until I feels the "drop" into the thread, then tighten them....these are "self tapping" screws, and a "plastic case" so , if you're not careful, they will "strip out" after a few "installations" Before I install the "rear cover" I use a pretty good "gob" of grease, around the anti reverse shaft....that helps keep the sand out !

[Crow]

    I also apply "plenty" of grease to the main shaft, where it exits the reel.....Because of the "in and out " motion, any sand or git that gets into this area tends to get pulled into the inside of the pinion gear (which serves as the 'bearing surface" for the main shaft) a "good coating" of grease will trap the sand, before it gets into the "guts" of the reel.
   Another area....actually TWO areas....that get a healthy gob of grease, is the inside of the hole , where the handle shaft goes into the gearcase...both sides. I fill it up, almost "level full".....and , yes, all that grease "gathers up" a LOT of sand ! These "cheap" reels have looser tolerances....and no "seals", to keep sand and water out....so, I use the grease to provide a "sand trap". The "thick coating" keeps the sad away from the bearings, at least for a while ! Every few 'outings", I remove the handle shaft, and use a small screwdriver to carefully scrape the worst of the sand coated , upper layer, of grease, out....when it gets "too sandy"...or gets pushed in "too deep" (usually the result of dropping the rig into the loose sand, or surf......all of us "snow birds" are  old, and clumsy...so that seems to happen quite often !), it's time for a tear down, and a clean and re lube job.
    The inside of the rotor has "ratchet teeth" that interact with the anti reverse rocker arm.....and I DON'T put any grease on those......to do so would just gather way too much sand, way too soon, and if those teeth get packed with sand,there is no "anti reverse" !
    The drag washers....pretty much the same set-up in any front drag spinner.....get wiped off with a rag, and have a bit of Cal's applied....the washers on these cheapies are felt, seem to do a pretty good job, and , if greased and kept free of sand, last a long time. I usually put just a "bit " of grease on the "clicker" wheel, after I re install it on the shaft.....more to keep it from rusting, than for any lubrication, and I put a bit of Cal's on the "under spool" plastic washer and a "gob" on the threaded part of the drag adjustment knob, to keep the crap out of the threads, After each "outing" I pull the spool, wipe or blow all the sand out from under it, and re grease the main shaft.
    A drop of ReelX on the bail hinge points, line roller, and handle knob, takes care of those areas.

     This is my 8th year fishing some of these reels......I've yet to have any "gear stripping" issues, broken bail springs, or line roller issues, with any of them.....although, before our "season" starts, I do pull the plastic covers of the bail hinges, and get the sand out, and also pull the line rollers, for a quick look-see,(they are a pretty "loose" fit, and only have a nylon sleeve, as a bearing.....too loose to get "frozen" by the sand, I guess ). They are fairly light in weight, the rotor balance is good, they are "smooth" when reeling,  the bail trips work well, with out any "glitches" (although, in my case, I usually close the bail manually), the gearing and drags are "good enough" to handle not only the whiting, but the occasional 40 inch plus black drum, bigger redfish, and, once in a while, a stingray the size of a car door !
      I have "better" reels, for other uses, and other areas, but, for "in the surf", and for use by a bunch of old geezers, who know nothing about fishing....it's hard to beat 'em ! And, when one DOES finally "bite the dirt".........another can be had, "reel cheap"

     I've seen the "Berkley" branded ones in just about any "color" you can name....red, brown, silver, yellow, green, and a couple shades of blue, some with "fake , plastic chrome....and all of ours get pretty well scratched up, beat up, stepped on, sat on, dropped in the water.........but, with some care....they just keep hanging in there! If we were fishing "good" reels (those "B " grade...or even "A" grade) they would need the same care, cleaning, and re lubing, that these do . On a "fished" reel....full of sand and old lube, a tear down, cleaning, re lube, and assembly, takes me about 3/4 of an hour....maybe a bit more if I spend too much time trying to "save" one of the original bearings, something I don't mess with, if I just change it out for a replacement.   I figure I have to spend , maybe an average of $15, for a reel, and, with replacement bearings, about $7 worth, it makes a pretty reasonable reel;. Being as we are all, old, retired, snow birds....we have to "budget " our fishing expenses, so we can afford all those "home improvement" items, those nice young, folks keep calling us about

[festus]

You're right. Crow, I've seen those same combos in the orange theme called "South Bend Mudville Catfish Combo." My step-grandson has had one of those in the 50 size for several years.  7' rod.  Thanks for the look inside, and l'm not surprised there was very little grease from the factory.

[oc1]

Arlyn, from your description I suspect the weak link will not be the gears but the tapping screws into a plastic body.  If you tighten too much the pressure deforms the threads.  If you don't tighten enough it rattles and deforms the threads. 

The more the screws are removed and replaced the worse it gets.  That sort of puts a fixed limit on the number of times a reel can be serviced.  What do you reckon that number is?  Maybe twenty or so?

This problem is not confined to the inexpensive equipment.  I have a $200 Shimano that is on it's last legs due to worn out side plate screw holes in the plastic. 

It may be possible to fill and re-tap the holes or use larger screws, but I haven't tried it.
-steve

[RowdyW]

If you want to fish seriously then buy a decent reel that will last a long time with regular maintence. If you want to buy something just to see if you can fish then buy the cheap junk that will probably get put in the cellar or attic that someone will find many years later & think they have found a valuable antique. Cheap gear is made for drowning worms.     Rudy

[The Fishing Hobby]

If you want to fish seriously then buy a decent reel that will last a long time with regular maintence. If you want to buy something just to see if you can fish then buy the cheap junk that will probably get put in the cellar or attic that someone will find many years later & think they have found a valuable antique. Cheap gear is made for drowning worms.     Rudy

I caught my fist redfish on a $16 rod and reel combo I picked up while on vacation. $16 well spent in my book! 

[Crow]

    I think , too often, those of us who are "hooked" on fishing, tend to forget "how' we got 'hooked'.....I know that I see lots of folks buying "the cheap" combos from Wally world (or where ever), .....they are "at the beach" (or the "lake"...where ever) for a week, or two, and the kids (or Dad!) wants to fish, so....pick up a cheap combo, and $10 worth of hooks & sinkers, and have at it.  I've seen 10 year olds....with a cheap outfit....sitting on the dock,....fishing for the "first time ever", who are much more "serious" about their fishing than many an "old pro" !
    Every body has to start somewhere ! And, for many.....due to either cost, or availability....are going to be using "cheap" equipment (and not just as a starting point, but, from that point, onward!) Most of the combos that one sees in Wally World fall into about 3 different "grades"....about $30, about $50,...and about $80+........and all of them will catch fish, some will stand up to use (and ABuse!) better than others, but all are designed to cater to the "new"...or the "occasional" fisherman. Meant to be used, until it's junk...thrown away, and replaced by another "cheap combo"....so , they are a good place for that "new, or occasional" fisherman to learn how to "care for" their equipment, as well as how to "use" their equipment.
    I've seen several threads, here, on providing "starter" equipment to kids, or disabled folks....to share the thrill of the sport with them..., and many of the "tutorials" give 'setp-by-step' instructions on cleaning and repair of the "better" grades....I just thought that those "throw a ways" needed a bit of press, as well.
      And, yeah......some real quality equipment can be had "for cheap", at yard sales...ebay...places like that, so a "cheap wally world  combo ISN'T the only low-buck way to get started....but, for someone that isn't experienced in identifying "good" equipment....that works correctly.....the "low buck" new stuff from a box store would, IMHO, be a safer starting point.

[foakes]

Good reminder, Arlyn -- and a good thread for many of us "reel nerds" --

We are halfway through the second generation of folks who really only know "throw-away" tech.  Nothing wrong with that -- but we are different here on Alan's site.

Sort of like an electrician's family moving into a new house for the first time. The young son asks Dad how the lights work in his bedroom.  The father goes into a long explanation of the principles of electrical current, voltages, A/C, resistance, and such...then the kid sez -- OK, Dad...but I just wanted to know where the light switch is...

Will never forget the thrill of catching my first Bluegill on a rod and reel that probably cost $4 -- and just string, no mono.

Next came an open-faced spinning outfit (Roddy) bought new at Long's Drugs.  Spent hours and days, just learning to practice cast out in the street by our house.  With 5 kids, money was more than scarce -- so we made do.

Here on Alan's site, members gain knowledge, and learn how to fix and take care of their equipment.  And we learn quality gear from the junk.  But even the lesser quality equipment has value for a majority of folks.

Good thread, Crow!

Best,

Fred

[mo65]

Every body has to start somewhere !

   Ain't that the truth! I doubt I'd ever buy another "C" grader...but I grew up on them...they made me the fish geek I am today!

[Midway Tommy]

Great reminder, Arlyn! How easily it is to forget where most of us, at the time paupers, started. 

Back in '70, @ 20, I broke the threaded handle shaft off my first open face spinner, a Mitchell 304. I decided to invest in a quality reel, a Zebco Cardinal 6, as a replacement. My father-in-law at the time used cheap reels and had given me a couple of his extras. One was a plastic piece of crap, a Zebco 202, that my wife would use occasionally. Well, one day my dad, myself & another guy went to a nearby lake to do some boat fishing. I didn't want to take the chance on damaging my new Cardinal 6, it was for serious stuff like trips to MN, etc. I took that 202 and low and behold I landed a 6.5 lb walleye on that plastic thing with about 4 lb test line! It stood as my largest walleye for close to 30 years. 

Here's my reminder. That's my dad in the background. We were both a lot younger and thinner in those days. 

[DougK]

thanks Crow, I love to see this - fixing a reel that was designed as a cheap throwaway and making it better..

bought a Zebco Pro Staff PS2 from the early 90s on a whim recently, took it apart last night and found those two plastic bushings on each side of the main gear. It's astonishing to me these bushings would last even a couple of months. The reel was used enough that the line roller has a shiny line around it, though, which suggests it's got a bit of mileage on it.
The rest of the reel is quite decently made though, so I think I'll replace those bearings as you suggest.

I put ceramic bearings into an older Lews Speedspool baitcaster, which improved its casting performance significantly. The spin reel bearings won't make much if any noticeable difference I suspect, just give me peace of mind ;-)

[Gfish]

Whenever I go to Wallmart, I see casual fisherman-type Island folks, and tourists, searching through the combos. I'd imagine there's alota them stored in vacation rentals, garages, and I see them in the backs of pick-ups, probably not rinsed off after fishing and in the process of corroding. There's a good market for these products. Just can't get into that "throw away" thing though...
Great post Crow. Servicing these products is a good idea and a great way to start the learning process. Especially if you think you're gonna go through a "trial and error" phase before you lay down $ for good equipment.
I got my first good fish on the Islands using a cheap collapsable travel rod with a mostly plastic Shakespeare Synergy spincaster.

[Gfish]

Well, as we get more experienced and older, it follows that you might gain more access to the less fished areas, unfortunately probably paying more or putting out much more effort to get there. Around here, the "throw away"(hate that term) market stuff is being used mostly by the "easy access shoreline, lets have a party/picnic" crowd.
"Encouraging the masses" definitely has negative impacts, IMO. Various aspects of fishing edict and sportsmanship may go downhill, while the bottom-line for related businesses increases and the catch/effort for serious fisherman suffers. The "put and take" hatchery trout system in California is my pet peeve example.

We got alota fish watchers in Hawaii(snorklers & divers), even me sometimes. Figuring out what you've seen is almost as fun as actually spotting 'em, and it dosen't seem to affect the species populations.

Edit: these comments were relative to Steve's(oc1) in the 2nd to the last post, but that post had disappeared along with a post by Randy(rancanfish) by the time I had posted the first edit...? If it's a moderator thing, feel free to delete this'n...