A Couple Of Rod Finish Tricks

Started by Midway Tommy, March 02, 2020, 09:19:10 PM

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droppedit

#15
Quote from: steelfish on March 03, 2020, 05:45:22 PM
Billy Vivona that is using a mix of two different brands of finish to have the best of both brands, finish, clear and long pot life, I really never knew which are the w brands of epoxy he is mixing together and whats the ratio but hear that for him is working just right.




I tried to do that Alex with very bad results. He claimed mixing Thread master with pro coat, equal amounts, of each would make a hard finish (thread master) with an easy flow and less bubbles (pro coat). In theory it worked well. Went on nice and was very hard. Problem was on the 3 rods I tried this on they were returned because of cracking in the finish. This occurred on the butt wraps of the 3 rods. It looked like the rod was broken, a deep crack around the diameter all the way down to the threads. Could of been something I did wrong but it was only on the rods I mixed the finish on. Never had that problem before or after. Just putting this out to save you some time and embarrassment .


Dave
Some days the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.

http://www.turnerscustomrods.com

oc1

#16
That's the trouble with a very hard finish.  With the hardness comes brittleness.  Something very flexible like a fishing rod needs some elasticity in the finish to keep it from cracking.

That's also how it was in the days of varnish; before epoxy.  Spar varnish had more oil than regular varnish to give it some elasticity and keep it from cracking when the spar (a boat mast or yard) bent in the wind.  Today, "spar varnish" has lost its meaning and just means a varnish that can be used outdoors and may, or may not, have extra elasticity.

-steve

steelfish

Quote from: droppedit on March 04, 2020, 02:38:35 PM
I tried to do that Alex with very bad results. He claimed mixing Thread master with pro wrap, equal amounts, of each would make a hard finish (thread master) with an easy flow and less bubbles (pro wrap). In theory it worked well. Went on nice and was very hard. Problem was on the 3 rods I tried this on they were returned because of cracking in the finish. This occurred on the butt wraps of the 3 rods. It looked like the rod was broken, a deep crack around the diameter all the way down to the threads. Could of been something I did wrong but it was only on the rods I mixed the finish on. Never had that problem before or after. Just putting this out to save you some time and embarrassment .

Dave

thanks for the headsup Dave,

I did a small mix of 50-50 of D2 and LS supreme but only tested it on some broken rods I had, didnt liked the results pretty sure the chemical formulas on each epoxy brand didnt liked each other, cuz the finish never got completely hard, it was kind of tacky and I never had the intention to search for the perfect ratio to mix the two finish, so I opted to better use my different epoxy finish without mixing them.

in my pretty low rod jobs I currently have, I dont have a problem making two batch of epoxy to made a whole rod, it just takes another 4 minutes to mix and apply but sometimes I had to stop as soon as the finish started to felt like honey (or before that) and only one guide was missing to coat  :-\

The Baja Guy

Rivverrat

#18
Dave , thanks for your reply. Sorry you had this experience. What follows is nothing more than just my thoughts from the short time I've been doing this.   Epoxy used for attaching grips, reel seats & epoxy used for finish are the foundation of any rod build. It can have a big impact on the longevity of a rod build.

 I personally wouldn't change my epoxy used for attaching grips, reel seats or for finish until I have set the new to me finish out in the sun, under a load for at least 3 months (preferably  longer) straight. My thought is people may be depending on my rod on a trip that cost thousands of dollars don't need or want a failure.

 Also Billy V. has for some time now chosen not to grind & reprofile the feet on his guides. This is in no way a negative against Billy he is one of the best on a rod lathe. He has chose not to because of cracks allowing salt water in & getting to the unprotected guide feet with finish ground off.

 My response is, if you don't fit your guide feet by grinding to a thinner profile the likelihood cracking will happen goes up greatly. Some may say, dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I've dealt with this in my earlier builds & am confident with end result. Never heard of any cracking issues with Jon V's rods & those from other builders... Jeff

Midway Tommy

Quote from: Rivverrat on March 04, 2020, 07:57:57 PM
Dave , thanks for your reply. Sorry you had this experience. What follows is nothing more than just my thoughts from the short time I've been doing this.   Epoxy used for attaching grips, reel seats & epoxy used for finish are the foundation of any rod build. It can have a big impact on the longevity of a rod build.

 I personally wouldn't change my epoxy used for attaching grips, reel seats or for finish until I have set the new to me finish out in the sun, under a load for at least 3 months (preferably  longer) straight. My thought is people may be depending on my rod on a trip that cost thousands of dollars don't need or want a failure.

 Also Billy V. has for some time now chosen not to grind & reprofile the feet on his guides. This is in no way a negative against Billy he is one of the best on a rod lathe. He has chose not to because of cracks allowing salt water in & getting to the unprotected guide feet with finish ground off.

 My response is, if you don't fit your guide feet by grinding to a thinner profile the likelihood cracking will happen goes up greatly. Some may say, dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I've dealt with this in my earlier builds & am confident with end result. Never heard of any cracking issues with Jon V's rods & those from other builders... Jeff


I only grind the taper at the front of the foot so that the thread goes up over it easier without leaving an opening or overlap. I never grind the sides except where I've adjusted the front taper. I want that wider flared area there to keep the guide foot from moving or sliding forward under the thread. I haven't built a ton of rods, maybe 10 or 12 before this group, but most of those are 15 to 25 years old and I've never had a wrap crack, yet.  :)
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

Rivverrat

  Tommy with lighter gear we can see a lot of forgiveness not that you did anything wrong. Also Please Tommy take nothing I'm saying at any time to being directed at you or any one in particular regarding your rod builds. The way you've chosen has most obviously worked well for you. Your rods in the pic are pleasing to look at, a quick glance reveals "They Aint Off No Shelf".

  I'm approaching somewhere close to 40 rods built. The people I look to in this business have built 100's some probably have a few thousand rods or more. I have to say the best, most effective things / situations at moving me forward, what ever little bit that maybe, hasn't been any knowledge gained talking with these people but rather it has been my mistakes. Some of them costly. The first 8 rods I did for others came back.

   I went out & picked up 3 of them the other 5 I paid to have shipped back. 8' & 9' rods, not cheap to ship. I realized I had made a mistake.  At the time not knowing much about what I was doing. After this I really questioned myself about this rod building thing.
Not long after this I realized during final testing the reel seat on a member here's rod was not lined up with the spine. While cutting the reel seat off, the stand I had the rod mounted in collapsed a couple of inches & stopped abruptly, plunging the blade into the blank.

During this time, I was texting him pics of the procedure involved in cutting the reel seat off. (Won t Do That Again) After the little mishap I refused to look at the blank & texted all was well. Only later after forcing myself to look I let him know what had happened & of course I replaced the blank.   If you fail to find humor with your self & life with this sort of stuff, insanity may be a 1/2 step away.

I find now after a little time the frustration & mistakes to be much fewer & I'm actually starting to like my own work & enjoy it more every time I sit at the lathe.

   I didn't even say what I set out say I guess I even forgot why I posted. Oh man I gotta hit the rack & die a bit... Jeff


The Fishing Hobby


steelfish

Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 03, 2020, 07:04:02 AM
[.....but a few years back I stopped in at our local Cabela's and low and behold they had two, still in the plastic shipping socks, 7'-0" medium fast 10-17# SC III Avid blanks in barrel in the Bargain Cave.

Bautiful rod that St croix avid you have there TOmmy

I have a old school UL Fenwick eagle graphite rod that a local friend gave me cuz he used it in USA on FW but have been sitting on his garage for the last 10 years, he never wanted to use it on saltwater, I was thinking to rewrap it with new and lighter quality fuji guides but I dont know if I will ever use it in SW too  ;D ;D so, meanwhile it just sits in my rod rack.

I have some nice light 10ft rods for SW that cast 1/4 to 3/4 oz lures and those are really fun to fith 1# spotted bay bass or a 3# trigger.

I dont want to hijack the thread but I think tommy would like to see this UL rod after seeing what he had built.
The Baja Guy

Midway Tommy

Thanks for the compliments, guys! I ain't no Pro but I try my best to build something sensitive with quality & decent looking. I know sometimes I'll make wraps a little long to get some added coloring, but I try not to go overboard and get too gaudy.  ::)

Jeff, you're right, for the type of fishing I do, freshwater only & usually just lake fishing, tolerances can be a lot more forgiving. All my builds run from 2-6# ULs up to these two 10-17# Avids. The heaviest rod I own is an early '80s 10-25# Excalibur. The heaviest jigs I'll use, which is rarely, are 3/8 oz. Generally just 1/4 oz on a 6-12# medium light extra fast action rod. The same goes for live bait rigging. A 1/2 oz bullet/worm weight on a 5' Lindy type live bait rig is as far as I'll usually go. If I have to go over 25' deep I might go up to 3/4 oz on a 8-17# rod, but that's about it. I don't do a lot of plug casting, we call LMB "Green Carp" in my fishing circles.  :D

It's nice using cork slip ring grips. Not only is it really easy to find the reel balance sweet spot, I don't have to worry about getting the reel seat perfectly lined up with the tip once I find the spline & install the tip.   

Alex, those old Fenwick rods still look cool & work great! Thanks for giving us a peek!     
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

Rivverrat

#24
Tommy, before I went off on a tangent last night from lack of sleep . This was what I was wanting to say.    Our fresh water rods do not see any where near the stress rods for Saltwater will see once we get above 50 lb. line.

I seriously doubt you can walk in to a Bass Pro in the mid west & find a rod on the shelf the will effectively fish 60 line at all angles a rod may be used at. With fresh water rods we seldom see finish crack at the feet & this is achieved using single wrapped guides. I found initially I needed to apply more attention to details on salt water builds. It now has just become the way I do things. I'm still learning, always will be & hope to some day do this full time... Jeff

Leonard

Vinegar works well for cleaning epoxy brushes.  Rinse in a small amount of fresh vinegar several times, rinse with hot water and if you are really worried finish off with some waterless hand cleaner or liquid dishwashing soap with another rinse. I've used this on boatbuilding epoxy for years, should work on rod building stuff.