DQ line lay

[Milan S]

Colleagues,

1. Who has better line lay: 285 or 330 or 330N?

2. Who has better line lay: 330N or 331N?

Best,

Milan

[Rivverrat]

This is a not so easy question when dealing with reels of this era. Simply because reels over time get beat up, bails & bail arms get bent & no two reels of the same model  perform the same because of this & no two people will adjust them same.

 With that said the closest to perfect line lay I've achieved with DAM Quick reels is with the 331 & the 270. I've worked on more 270's than any other Quick. They all will work well with braid... Jeff

[mo65]

   Jeff took the words right outta my mouth. Proper line lay is a roll of the dice with most any reel brand...or model...and depends on the line selected too. In my experience, most times it is the smaller reels that have line lay issues, but a little tweaking will always correct the issue.

[Milan S]

Colleagues,

Asking questions, I assumed that adjustments could be made to make the line lay work better.
I also assumed that experienced users did.

The first question concerns the compliance of the line lay mechanism with dimensions of spool.
The second question is about the gear ratio (speed) relationship with line lay.

Do faster machines match the braid better or not?

It is assumed that the position of the spool is well adjusted.

[oc1]

When the latch is tripped the bail slams shut.  The springs are a little overbuilt to make sure the bail closes completely so it slams shut with some authority.  Some people close the bail on some reels manually but that is more the exception than the rule.

I think most line lay problems can be traced back to the bail repeatedly slamming shut.  The contact points that take the brunt of the force become worn or deformed.  This allows the bail to rotate/travel slightly farther than it should.  Then the roller is no longer exactly perpendicular to the spool axis.  When the line roller is not perpendicular, line may ride up on the flange part of the roller instead of migrating to the center.  This changes the line lay and may make the line lay more variable.

Changing the line diameter will also change the line lay.

The curious thing is how such a minute change in the bail can make such a dramatic change in the line lay.
-steve

[mo65]

The curious thing is how such a minute change in the bail can make such a dramatic change in the line lay.
-steve

  Yes...when the line is "stacking" more to either the front or rear, it doesn't take long to make a mess. Something I've found that wrecks line lay more than anything is those darn missing rubber bumpers. This can move the pickup's positioning as much as 1/8th an inch. That's like 8 miles in line lay math. Here's a few photos to try and demonstrate how the missing bail bumper can ruin your day. In the first photo the yellow arrow is touching the bail bumper. In the second pic the bumper is missing. That will change the pickup's positioning...resulting in the line lay changing...most times for the worst.

[Midway Tommy]

Changing the line diameter will also change the line lay.

The curious thing is how such a minute change in the bail can make such a dramatic change in the line lay.
-steve

That is something a lot of people obviously don't think about. If you really stop and think about it most reel manufacturers have always referenced a line weight (i.e. 2-6, 6-12, 8-20#, etc.) range for a given reel. Then some dude decides he wants to use a medium-light size reel on big fish and sticks 15 or 25# test line on it instead of using something it was designed for and implementing the drag function as intended. That might work if the reel was designed for mono and you decide to use braid, but larger diameter line is always going to spool on, lay, different than smaller diameter line. I'm pretty sure that's why reels were recommended for a narrow range of line weights.

Personally, I try to say in the middle of the range recommended. I seldom have a problem with even lay unless a part is showing wear.   

[Rivverrat]

Mike we need a line roller & guide for some of these Quicks. I'm at some point going to try to make use of the carbide roller on a the 270 & fashion some type of bail less set up. Cant say that I've ever seen mid size spinners that were with out bail.

Using braid has work fine for me on all Quick reels I've used it. You will at some point as with any reel using braid need to wind it back on tight.  This can be done with out line winder... Jeff

[Milan S]

If we suppose everything is set up properly, only consideration of speed remains...

Do higher gear reels have better line lay for braid use?
Slower transmission is more cross and this is better due to the elimination of cutting breid into oneself.
With which nests are less likely to form? Higher or slower gear ratio?

[mo65]

Mike we need a line roller & guide for some of these Quicks. I'm at some point going to try to make use of the carbide roller on a the 270 & fashion some type of bail less set up. Cant say that I've ever seen mid size spinners that were with out bail.

   If you look at most PUM kits you get the impression that a big deep pickup is needed to keep the line engaged, I think it may be overkill. Making a reel manual is usually as easy as hacking off the bail. I've heard guys say that it won't work, but I beg to differ, I have many reels converted by this "googan hack" and have never had one not fish fine. Especially if the reel has a good roller...as you mentioned. Mid size PUM conversions were rare...but do exist.

[mo65]

If we suppose everything is set up properly, only consideration of speed remains...Do higher gear reels have better line lay for braid use? Slower transmission is more cross and this is better due to the elimination of cutting breid into oneself. With which nests are less likely to form? Higher or slower gear ratio?

   I don't think reel speed will effect your line lay...unless I'm missing something. I found that most line lay issues involving modern braid on vintage spinners is simply a matter of selecting the proper diameter braid. Just like Tommy suggested using the proper diameter mono...drastic changes in braid diameter will cause you grief also.
   Example: The selected reel was designed for 10lb. mono and you spool up with 10lb. braid. That 10lb. braid is the diameter of 4lb. mono!. If it works...consider yourself lucky. If not...try 30-40lb. braid...it is the same diameter as the 10lb. mono...and will spool up without any drama. Just forget about the strength rating. As long as you don't get snagged, lock down the drag, and try to bust that 40lb. line by pulling back with the reel, you'll never hurt your reel.

[Rivverrat]

If we suppose everything is set up properly, only consideration of speed remains...

Do higher gear reels have better line lay for braid use?
Slower transmission is more cross and this is better due to the elimination of cutting breid into oneself.
With which nests are less likely to form? Higher or slower gear ratio?

I cant say with any certainty that a fast geared reel will work better with braid.

It is my belief that keeping braid wound on the spool tight is the best way to do this. Braid needs to be installed at the very least using  the same level of drag you intend to fish it.

 This should be done ever so often. You can let line off the back of a boat while under way  & teel back in with a small spinning bait or something to give resistance. Or te line off  & reel back under tension... Jeff

[Balvar24]

   If you look at most PUM kits you get the impression that a big deep pickup is needed to keep the line engaged, I think it may be overkill. Making a reel manual is usually as easy as hacking off the bail. I've heard guys say that it won't work, but I beg to differ, I have many reels converted by this "googan hack" and have never had one not fish fine. Especially if the reel has a good roller...as you mentioned. Mid size PUM conversions were rare...but do exist.

Question.  What's the point of PUM?

[mo65]

Question.  What's the point of PUM?

   It was developed for surf casters. Casting very heavy lures or baits has a tendency to make the rotor roll and trip the bail...resulting in a snapped line and lost lure.

[Midway Tommy]

Jeff hit one nail on the head that had yet to be mentioned. It really doesn't matter whether it's mono or braid, appropriate tension is paramount to even and consistent line lay. Loose looping line onto the spool creates lots of uneven line stacking.