114H 6/0 Narrow .......

[wideopenoutdoors]

I think you're on the right track for Florida head boats,,,,, most there just use 4/0's with 30wt rods,,,,, triggers,,vermillion snapper,,,black bass and how deep will you be fishing,,,,,,

HEAD BOAT???!!!!! A Grady White TigerCat is a long way from a head boat 🤣 maybe i need an intentional 80tw ?

[jurelometer]

Second, as much as I love narrow reels for most applications, fishing with Ted in deep water has shown me that wide reels have a place. If you are bottom fishing, a wide reel with high capacity keeps the outside diameter of the spooled line larger (I hope that makes sense,) providing a higher rate of retrieve and higher drag numbers. Unless you are really jigging hard, the extra weight isn't that big of a deal compared to if you were casting.

I'd load your narrow reel with braid in order to keep the line as close to the top of the spool as possible for dropping deep.

Ronald Jones

Agree that  making a reel wider gives you more yardage at  higher line per revolution.

But I believe it is not correct that the drag has "higher numbers" as the spool is filled.  Actually the inverse.  The larger the diameter, the less efficient the drag (less drag for the same clamping force), and the more strain on the gears - for the reasons mentioned in my previous post.

Lots of people here like narrow reels, and if that is what you like to fish, then that is the right reel for you.   My points are strictly from a mechanical/physics perspective. 

For me, if am drop-slow-jigging with a single speed reel, I like  a reel with a high gear ratio and a long handle arm.   The high gear ratio gives me the high retrieve rate, and the long handle arm gives me back some/most of the leverage that I lost going to the higher gears.   The long handle arm is a only at an ergonomic disadvantage when speed winding.   BUT, the handle/main gear shaft design on the reel has to be strong enough to support a long handle arm.  With this kind of setup, I don't need to oversize my reel just to get the retrieve rate that I need.

-J

[Benni3]

I think you're on the right track for Florida head boats,,,,, most there just use 4/0's with 30wt rods,,,,, triggers,,vermillion snapper,,,black bass and how deep will you be fishing,,,,,,

HEAD BOAT???!!!!! A Grady White TigerCat is a long way from a head boat 🤣

Hehe,,,,, that's a different story,,,,you don't know how bad I like to come down there right now for the goalth grouper,,,,,,

[wideopenoutdoors]

I think you're on the right track for Florida head boats,,,,, most there just use 4/0's with 30wt rods,,,,, triggers,,vermillion snapper,,,black bass and how deep will you be fishing,,,,,,

HEAD BOAT???!!!!! A Grady White TigerCat is a long way from a head boat 🤣

Hehe,,,,, that's a different story,,,,you don't know how bad I like to come down there right now for the goalth grouper,,,,,,

Open invitation, just give us a few weeks notice. We don't usually Target GG, they are usually hooked when they eat a smaller fish. Everyone makes a big deal about them but I have witnessed my father bring up a Volkswagen sized one from 55ft in a half hour with a stock, yard sale special black plated 4/0 that probably still had the asbestos drag washers.... I have done similar with a long beach 66? And suitcased sized. GG


I'm slowly going through the information presented about the physics behind the reels. Will report back later on that. Going to order the other dog and some drag grease.

[Benni3]

[quote author=Benni3 link=topic=31466.msg367933#msg367933

Open invitation, just give us a few weeks notice. We don't usually Target GG, they are usually hooked when they eat a smaller fish. Everyone makes a big deal about them but I have witnessed my father bring up a Volkswagen sized one from 55ft in a half hour with a stock, yard sale special black plated 4/0 that probably still had the asbestos drag washers.... I have done similar with a long beach 66? And suitcased sized. GG


I'm slowly going through the information presented about the physics behind the reels. Will report back later on that. Going to order the other dog and some drag grease.

Thanks very much for the invitation,,,,,,, but i'm about 14hr away,,,, but let me know if you want me to come down sometime I got a 1/0,,,,9/0 fully built you can try out,,,,,,

[sabaman1]

Just my opinion,why not spend the money on a Penn International if your just dropping baits to the bottom. I think the Internationals with a few tweaks can handle all that your looking to slay. On ebay there are lots of the older Internationals for fairly reasonable prices as compared to doing upgrades to the old Senators.

[Benni3]

Just my opinion,why not spend the money on a Penn International if your just dropping baits to the bottom. I think the Internationals with a few tweaks can handle all that your looking to slay. On ebay there are lots of the older Internationals for fairly reasonable prices as compared to doing upgrades to the old Senators.

True,,,,,, I got a  20and50 international's and a stock 6/0 if you want try that sometime,,,,,,,

[wideopenoutdoors]

Just my opinion,why not spend the money on a Penn International if your just dropping baits to the bottom. I think the Internationals with a few tweaks can handle all that your looking to slay. On ebay there are lots of the older Internationals for fairly reasonable prices as compared to doing upgrades to the old Senators.

A 50 is on the list, after this reel, the 1/0, the 9/0, and then maybe a 50

[Benni3]

Just my opinion,why not spend the money on a Penn International if your just dropping baits to the bottom. I think the Internationals with a few tweaks can handle all that your looking to slay. On ebay there are lots of the older Internationals for fairly reasonable prices as compared to doing upgrades to the old Senators.

A 50 is on the list, after this reel, the 1/0, the 9/0, and then maybe a 50

Yes you're on the right track my friend,,,, a 6/0 full blown and a 30wt 2 speed,,,,, but let's talk about spin reels what's next D.A.M quick maybe,,,,,,,

[thorhammer]

150 braid is going to be impossible to break off if you get hung and you'll be cutting it. 100lb is plenty; 20 feet or so of 130 mono for replaceable abrasion guard on the end. the Penn 30 stick will do fine but you will appreciate the 6' over 5'6' if you are using J hooks and have to set it. Just be aware of the roller tip clearance as you will have to wind a pretty big uniknot through it unless you use hollow braid spliced. Hollow also lays flat for a little more capacity, per Porthos here (Wai) who did some comparison on one of his reels.


Re older gen 1 Internationals: gen 1 single speeds indeed can be had relatively cheaply compared to a full 6/0 or 9/0 build. However, there's more to it- the old ones were built for line class fishing, so a 20/30 isn't going to deliver the drag of a 30VISX of today. There is a work around for the older ones but it's about $100 for new drag plate and the other assorted bits that will help bump up the drag, but only so much. With the 6/0 build you already have in progress you will easily exceed the stock drag numbers from an older Int 30, and with a star drag you can lock it down without worrying about thrust bearing failure. Taking an old stock 30, and trying to lock it with 150 braid is going to likely hurt something- they also don't have full frames and the stands are stamped, so you will possibly torque it if the bearings hold with that pressure. Cal Sheets came up with a replacement base for Gen 1 80's for that reason-- people fished them heavy and the stands bent. Not that a 20/30 wont do fine in stock form for grouper, they will, but like any reel, stay in it's design capability. I cranked a 250 lb shark up down there on a bone stock 114HLW and 50 mono; IMO two speeds with 130 braid are in the swordfishing or big tuna realm and overkill on a snapper. This is all my personal experience, owning and fishing the 6/0, 9/0 as well as Gen 1 20, 30, and 50's and later Ints.

If i recall correctly, Sal was able to make 75lbs of drag in a 9/0 with all the goodies, which has essentially same drive as the 6/0. Even at half that, 37 lbs is more than an old 30 makes.



John 

[Jim Fujitani]

Just my opinion,why not spend the money on a Penn International if your just dropping baits to the bottom. I think the Internationals with a few tweaks can handle all that your looking to slay. On ebay there are lots of the older Internationals for fairly reasonable prices as compared to doing upgrades to the old Senators.

I think the main reason for the Senators over the Internationals for bottom fishing is weight.  Senators reels that have the same comparable capacity of a specific International would probably weigh half as much. The Internationals are stout and sturdy heavy weight reels.    If you holding a rod at the rail, and cranking a fish from the bottom, as long as it isn't a goliath grouper, you won't need the sturdy heavy International.  The Internationals were designed to fight big (comparatively speaking) pelagic fish from a fighting chair on a fishing yacht, and replaced the often-used and older Senator line.

[wideopenoutdoors]

This thread was never meant to be a senator vs international discussion so, moving on.

Thor, Do you have a link to the test i looked briefly today and couldn't find it. I plan on taking the donor reel part this week and polishing the parts that will be used, among the list of other on going projects (side note, anyone have a suggestion how to plastic weld a jet ski fuel tank?)

[Ron Jones]

Second, as much as I love narrow reels for most applications, fishing with Ted in deep water has shown me that wide reels have a place. If you are bottom fishing, a wide reel with high capacity keeps the outside diameter of the spooled line larger (I hope that makes sense,) providing a higher rate of retrieve and higher drag numbers. Unless you are really jigging hard, the extra weight isn't that big of a deal compared to if you were casting.

I'd load your narrow reel with braid in order to keep the line as close to the top of the spool as possible for dropping deep.

Ronald Jones

Agree that  making a reel wider gives you more yardage at  higher line per revolution.

But I believe it is not correct that the drag has "higher numbers" as the spool is filled.  Actually the inverse.  The larger the diameter, the less efficient the drag (less drag for the same clamping force), and the more strain on the gears - for the reasons mentioned in my previous post.

Lots of people here like narrow reels, and if that is what you like to fish, then that is the right reel for you.   My points are strictly from a mechanical/physics perspective. 

For me, if am drop-slow-jigging with a single speed reel, I like  a reel with a high gear ratio and a long handle arm.   The high gear ratio gives me the high retrieve rate, and the long handle arm gives me back some/most of the leverage that I lost going to the higher gears.   The long handle arm is a only at an ergonomic disadvantage when speed winding.   BUT, the handle/main gear shaft design on the reel has to be strong enough to support a long handle arm.  With this kind of setup, I don't need to oversize my reel just to get the retrieve rate that I need.

-J

Sorry, got the drag thing screwed up. What I meant to say is that the drag change is less significant because the diameter doesn't change as much.
Ron Jones

[wideopenoutdoors]

The sideplates and internal goodies were delivered yesterday. Tonight I'm going to strip down a loaner reel for the remaining parts and assemble. Will post pics of the process, for critique and approval 

[wideopenoutdoors]

The donor reel was disgusting Inside..... I have the parts soaking in some hot water and dish soap...