Some patterns I’ve used.

Started by gstours, August 09, 2020, 03:02:41 AM

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gstours

Here's some ideas of what you can do.  Both of these caught fish.  Homemade.  Just saying.🧜‍♂️

gstours

Butt to be honest the first one is a Spinnow Minnow,  it was rigged with a treble hook and side swing....
   Cut it apart and re did the hooks.   Don't be afraid to try something different.   Just saying......
  These are slim and with bait stripes sink fast and are good for medium every thing.
        Life is short,  go fishing.🧞‍♂️

jurelometer

Lots of stuff going on with those jigs.

Have you thought about tying in one of these?   ;D ;D ;D

But seriously, thanks for sharing a bit of your hard earned knowledge.  Those Kodiak jigs are kinda interesting. Do the have much action?  I think there might be a way to tweak the design to get a faster drop and a bit more swing on the lift.


-J

Dominick

Those lures are alluring Mr. Buttman.  :D  Keep at it.  Dominick
Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

gstours

I,m not sure if the kodiak slanty ends allow any flutter.   Butt they are fairly popular up here. 
   These both have caught fish on different days.   Some days they will out fish bait.

gstours

Dave and Dom,  it's always more fun to fish your homade jigs as you may have known,   Butt I'm not anymore afraid 😟 of putting on the kitchen sink,   Oar even the table and chairs to find success.🧜‍♀️

gstours

The big green head is one of mine,  repainted,  19 ounces.   I want to re melt it and recast it with a shorter eye,   It's from a plaster mold.   
    The slimmer jigs may sink faster?  Butt you need the weight to keep down.   Sometimes you want to walk the jig back in the flow to cover more ground.   It's more work,  butt fun.🤦‍♀️

Rivverrat

 Those jigs you have there would I believe work well for Flathead... Jeff

gstours

Below 120- 150 feet in seawater the colors change and I'm not sure what is the best colors nor does it matter?  I've been using darker colors butt if I remember right the "hardy boy" has had success with a white or cream color?   That's going to be next.    Thanks for your comments. ;)

jurelometer

Quote from: gstours on August 10, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Below 120- 150 feet in seawater the colors change and I'm not sure what is the best colors nor does it matter?  I've been using darker colors butt if I remember right the "hardy boy" has had success with a white or cream color?   That's going to be next.    Thanks for your comments. ;)

I have been wanting to share what I have read up on this topic, but it is hard to get into a post or two.

The bottom line is that in the particulant  rich water at the higher latitude environment(sun is coming in at an angle)  that you fish in, most colors are filtered out in the first 15-20 feet.  There is some bio-luminescence going on throughout the water column, but these light sources are generally quite small and not very powerful. 

If red light waves do not make to the depth where your red jig is working, it means that that the red pigment in the jig that reflects red light waves (and absorbs all others) will have nothing to reflect, and the jig will appear as black.  Same for any other colors. Also, in order for light to be useful for an eye/brain to make visual sense of, it has to be mostly directional. When light waves hit the water, they will be bent, and some will bounce off of whatever particles they randomly bump into,  changing direction (diffusion).  So things get pretty murky pretty fast when light waves are ricocheting around.

Generally speaking, the fish that get to eat the most will be the one that is the first to make out prey shapes in a murky environment, with very low light.  This means that the eyes are mostly populated with highly sensitive (but not very specific) rod receptors that will respond to a larger range of frequencies (colors) at a wind range of amplitude (power). This comes at the expense of sharper vision with good depth reception and color separation.

So what you are looking for is contrast and profile. A dark jig will have more contrast if the fish is looking up, a light jig for fish looking down, and looking sideways is a function of depth and background.  If something is moving around like a prey item, and the basic profile matches up, your chances of getting bit are about as good as they are going to be.  Now it may be that a white jig is harder for a halibut to see, but it looks more like a sick octopus, which triggers a more aggressive feeding response.  So nothing is 100%

Glow will make the jig visible, but it usually will not look like any prey that the fish is keying on. So I don't know what to say here. I have wondered if some subtle glow highlights might work better (just enough to enhance the profile), but we tend to go crazy with the stuff when we use it.

There are a lot of other factors that go into fish vision (speed, acuity, rod cone/layout, etc.).   In  some ways, color is the least  important aspect of vision for many gamefish species.

The color and paint job often primarily serves the purpose of catching fishermen. 

But nothing wrong with doing what we enjoy and gives us confidence.    I always put my nicest looking jig on when fishing is slow.   Can't help myself :)

-J

Mandelstam

Quote from: jurelometer on August 11, 2020, 05:29:23 AM
Quote from: gstours on August 10, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Below 120- 150 feet in seawater the colors change and I'm not sure what is the best colors nor does it matter?  I've been using darker colors butt if I remember right the "hardy boy" has had success with a white or cream color?   That's going to be next.    Thanks for your comments. ;)

I have been wanting to share what I have read up on this topic, but it is hard to get into a post or two.

The bottom line is that in the particulant  rich water at the higher latitude environment(sun is coming in at an angle)  that you fish in, most colors are filtered out in the first 15-20 feet.  There is some bio-luminescence going on throughout the water column, but these light sources are generally quite small and not very powerful. 

If red light waves do not make to the depth where your red jig is working, it means that that the red pigment in the jig that reflects red light waves (and absorbs all others) will have nothing to reflect, and the jig will appear as black.  Same for any other colors. Also, in order for light to be useful for an eye/brain to make visual sense of, it has to be mostly directional. When light waves hit the water, they will be bent, and some will bounce off of whatever particles they randomly bump into,  changing direction (diffusion).  So things get pretty murky pretty fast when light waves are ricocheting around.

Generally speaking, the fish that get to eat the most will be the one that is the first to make out prey shapes in a murky environment, with very low light.  This means that the eyes are mostly populated with highly sensitive (but not very specific) rod receptors that will respond to a larger range of frequencies (colors) at a wind range of amplitude (power). This comes at the expense of sharper vision with good depth reception and color separation.

So what you are looking for is contrast and profile. A dark jig will have more contrast if the fish is looking up, a light jig for fish looking down, and looking sideways is a function of depth and background.  If something is moving around like a prey item, and the basic profile matches up, your chances of getting bit are about as good as they are going to be.  Now it may be that a white jig is harder for a halibut to see, but it looks more like a sick octopus, which triggers a more aggressive feeding response.  So nothing is 100%

Glow will make the jig visible, but it usually will not look like any prey that the fish is keying on. So I don't know what to say here. I have wondered if some subtle glow highlights might work better (just enough to enhance the profile), but we tend to go crazy with the stuff when we use it.

There are a lot of other factors that go into fish vision (speed, acuity, rod cone/layout, etc.).   In  some ways, color is the least  important aspect of vision for many gamefish species.

The color and paint job often primarily serves the purpose of catching fishermen. 

But nothing wrong with doing what we enjoy and gives us confidence.    I always put my nicest looking jig on when fishing is slow.   Can't help myself :)

-J


Interesting read! Thanks for sharing!

I was watching a few youtube videos last night from a bait makers channel and he was replicating an old school lure. He also made the reflection that especially modern lures are more designed to catch fishermen than fish. Not that they won't catch fish, but that a large portion of the design and paint scheme is aimed at buyers and not fish. He felt that old school lures was more honest "fishing machines" designed to catch fish.
"Fish," he said softly, aloud, "I'll stay with you until I am dead." - Santiago, Old Man And the Sea

gstours

Thanks again for sharing your information,  I've been wondering about the colors and have seen some good catches with the glow skirts and paint heads.   Butt it does seem unnatural..   I've experimented with led lights in jigs as well,   And need more time to really say.
   Sometimes just luck, can be another factor and blow your mind back to wondering!
I do agree that contrast is a key here.   Without bait on the jig, very little attention is given by my fish.
    Scented oils and gels are always added every time before the drop.    I,m thinking this may be almost as important as bait.   The fish smells it and becomes interested immediately.   
  This green tube one is 20 ounces and a copy of a friends hottest jig.   Duplicated the best i could do.

thorhammer

certain fish and mollusks ie squid and octopi can be bioluminescent- I always like some glow on anything i fish that deep, even if its just the chafe guards to bounce around and get some attention in the dark. my o.o2

Gfish

#13
So, when I dive, stuff down there all looks grey/blue past 30 ft. to my human eyes. Can they tell, based on anatomical studies, what a fish eye sees?
Sounds like solid colors wouldn't be most visible way down there, but maybe multi-color patterns. Could be movement and silhouette is more important. Then again, the sense of smell as Gary said, has gotta be huge factor...
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

jurelometer

#14
Quote from: Gfish on August 12, 2020, 04:09:18 PM
So, when I dive, stuff down there all looks grey/blue past 30 ft. to my human eyes. Can they tell, based on anatomical studies, what a fish eye sees?
Sounds like solid colors wouldn't be most visible way down there, but maybe multi-color patterns. Could be movement and silhouette is more important. Then again, the sense of smell as Gary said, has gotta be huge factor...

Some of  this was covered in my previous post.  There are lots of studies on specific species with  lots of differences,  but the controlling factors are light penetration and diffusion at depth.  

You can only see a  color that makes it to your current  depth, and only see something as having a specific color if your eyes have cone receptors with a chemical that responds to the frequency (wave length) of that color.   If a fish spends most of its life where a color cannot make it, it will not need receptors to pick up that color (with some exceptions for biolumescence).  

Blue/violet light waves are closer together than red/yellow waves, so they pack more energy and will travel deeper in clear water.  But in nutrient rich inshore water, the blues get absorbed by the algae and stuff, and does not make as deep as the greens.  The color of the water will tell you what light is getting absorbed last - e.g. Green inshore water vs. blue offshore water.  

 This is why inshore species tend to be green, and offshore blue.   A blue fish in will appear as as black shape to a predator when no blue light is available,  but a green fish will blend in with the background.    So over many generations, a predator in this environment evolves its vision to better discern the details of green objects to pick out the camouflaged prey.

Sort of an evolutionary arms race between prey and predator.

 As a lure designer, you have a choice to make.  If you do a really good job of imitating the image of  the prey item, you ar actually making it harder for the predator to find it.  Maybe that striper will bite a blue lure better because it stands out more, or maybe it will bite a green lure, because it can generate a clearer image.  Or maybe a green lure needs to have a more accurate profile than a blue lure.  Lots of variables, but you can cut it down quite a bit with some logic.

Getting back to some random species data:  Striped bass which live in estuary and inshore waters, have cones in the eye for multiple colors, but overall will get the strongest signals from green light with a peak right around chartreuse, which is a favorite color for striper flies.

Marlin do have some color receptors,  but just one color -blue (I know this is correct for some species of marlin, but not positive for all).  The purpose of the receptors is not to get a color image, but to use the cone (color) receptors to generate a clearer image when needed.  Cone receptors need a stronger/ clearer signal to fire than general purpose rod receptors. Blue Marlin have the cones distributed more on the top of the eye (I think). This  allows them to get a more detailed image when looking up and feeding toward the surface, but a more generalized-deep water setup when looking down.

Some species also move the rods and cones forward and back based on time of day (not ambient light), so the color vision and visual acuity will change throughout the day based on time.  

Plus lots of other kooky variations, like having a lens that is reflective on the inside, so that some  unused light gets reflected back to the receptors to give them another shot at it. Tarpon have these.

In terms of lures, smell and sound are not highly directional underwater, so they can work as a general attractant, but are only specific guide to the lure when the fish gets close.  The lateral line is not discussed much,but it is important for many species.  I like to think of it as extended touch, that allows fish to feel surfaces up to something around six feet away by detecting minute changes in water pressure  from movement.

Lots of scientific papers on fish vision.  The early ones seemed to be focused more on aquarium fish, but the newer stuff has a lot of game fish (especially marlin) and reef fish.    Not as much on sound processing and lateral lines, but there are some interesting papers as well.  Most are locked up in scientific journals, so you have to get through a paywall if you are not a student or researcher. Lots of good stuff coming out of Australia on vision.

I have to stop now before I get into light wave/particle duality.  Probably not many folks still reading :)

-J