penn bridge rescue

[alantani]

i've been working on a set of horribly corroded senators from a local charter operation.  every reel is seized up.  i can't just replace all of the bad parts. if i did that. the cost would be more than the reels are worth.  so this is a rescue mission, not recovery.  the goal is to replace only a fiber washer with a carbontex drag washer in each reel.  otherwise, i want to stay with all of the original parts.  old and crusty?  i can scrub it with a greasy toothbrush or hit it with the wire wheel on a bench grinder and get it looking acceptable.  rough gears?  just gotta live with it.  grungy drag washers?  just clean up the carbon fiber drags and grease them, then replace only the fiber washer under the main gear.  loose handle grips?  the brass spindles can be pressed in and tightened.  and the bridge plate?  they're all seized.  yeah, every single one. and the tops of these jigmaster brass gear sleeves are all rounded off.  the best solution is to replace them with stainless steel, but those are over $20 each.  so we need to pull the old gear sleeves off, clean them and re-shape the tops of the gear sleeves so that the handle arms are tight.  then hopefully with greased drags, the tops of the gear sleeves will not round off again. 

ok, so first, let's get the seized up gear sleeve off of the bridge plate.  tap out the retaining pin, hit it with a propane torch for 40 to 60 seconds, and it will come off. 



next, we have to clean off all of the corrosion.



you can see the play at the top of the gear sleeve.  we're going back to my bench vise and we're going to flare the top of the gear sleeve with a 1/8th inch hex bit.  a 1 ton bench press would work better, but the vise works well enough. 





because the hex bit will damage the internal threads, you have to clean up the threads with a 1/4-32 tap.  this is the one piece of hardware that you must have. 



and this is what it looks like when you're done! 



this is how you rescue a seized bridge plate and damaged gear sleeve.  to really do this right, a stainless steel gear sleeve is best, but if you have to make do, invest in a 1/4-32 tap and you should be all set. 

[oc1]

Wow.  Those ae some tricks that we can all use Boss.  Thank you very much.
-steve

[Tiddlerbasher]

Good save at minimal cost - way to go

[mhc]

Thanks Alan, good tips for keeping the old reels running without falling into the 'upgrade' rabbit hole.

Mike

[SteveL]

Out of curiosity, was the corroision that jammed/froze the sleeve to the bridge rust on the bridge post or corrosion on the brass?  

I have never had a bridge in that condition, but I have used a good soak in Evaporust to free pinions stuck to the spool shaft by rust.  Still had to use a penetrating lube and rig a small gear puller, but the pinions came off easily enough.  

[foakes]

Great explanation, and nice work, Alan!

Thanks!

Best, Fred

[Crow]

Good save !

[Bill B]

Good save, thank you for sharing, now off to the shop to see if I have the 1/4 x 32 tap...I like saving all the parts I can, this will be a great addition to the tool box....Bill

[RowdyW]

Given a patch job because a charter operator is to cheap to at least replace the gear sleeve with a new one or good used one doesn't say much for that charter operation. I guess he doesn't care about what some people will think about Penn gear down the road of this low maintence gear. If I was a newbie getting ready to start getting my own gear I probably wouldn't buy Penn gear when it had grumbling gears & lack of maintenence & breakdowns. It would be ok if you did this for your own use to save money but not for a customers use or resale. Now the guy can say  "it was rebuilt & serviced by Alan Tani". I sure wouldn't want anybody to say I did this kind of work.          Rudy

[foakes]

Given a patch job because a charter operator is to cheap to at least replace the gear sleeve with a new one or good used one doesn't say much for that charter operation. I guess he doesn't care about what some people will think about Penn gear down the road of this low maintence gear. If I was a newbie getting ready to start getting my own gear I probably wouldn't buy Penn gear when it had grumbling gears & lack of maintenence & breakdowns. It would be ok if you did this for your own use to save money but not for a customers use or resale. Now the guy can say  "it was rebuilt & serviced by Alan Tani". I sure wouldn't want anybody to say I did this kind of work.          Rudy

Not everyone can or will appreciate the kind of quality work you do, Rudy —

Can't, and won't speak for Alan —

However, for me, the conversation generally goes about like this with these types of poorly maintained reels —

1) lots of rust and crud, the sleeve is seized, and there are other issues due to salt and a lot of use

2) we can try to get the reel working — and it may last for another season, or maybe fail fairly soon

3) or we can spend $80 or $90 bucks on a reel that is not worth that much — your choice

4) at some point, either now or fairly soon — you should look at upgrading your reels — and we can get on a  
   regular maintenance and service schedule — to prevent this from happening, going forward

Sort of like going to your dentist — options, honestly, and trust.  That is why the client sent the reels to you — because he knows you would do your best, explain options, or let you know it was not worth it.

It is really up to the client — and the service guy (if he even wants to attempt the patch/fix).

And, finally, it is a testament to the skill of the reel mechanic to be able to do this type of work — that most reel techs would just not attempt.  As well as showing others what can be done, if necessary.

Again, Not everyone appreciates or even cares about the work involved in this kind of save.

And, in reality — a reel repaired in this manner, by an experienced and clever reel mechanic — very well might give another 10 years of service — if maintained annually.  It is always worth a shot to try and save a good customer a few bucks — with both the tech and the client knowing that it is a fix that may or may not last.

The main thing, after a repair of this type — is to really tighten the handle snugly to the sleeve.

IMO.

Best, Fred

[alantani]

i was thinking of SAR "search and rescue" missions.  it the worst case, it's not rescue but recovery.  the goal here was to get these reels working again by investing only time and that one carbon fiber drag washer that goes under the main gear.  yup, just doing it to see if it could be done.  it's not always the best way, but having this simply gives you the option. 

imagine a kid with a reel like this.   he's got no money and just this old reel.  growing up with that stupid farm of ours, you can't just send stuff out to the shop when something breaks down.  you've gotta be able to fix things yourself.  remember, that is how so many of us learned.  growing up, it was "fix it yourself or walk!"  a propane torch is nice, but you could simply set the bridge on the kitchen stove and hope mom doesn't catch you.  even a wood fire would get hot enough.  then an old toothbrush and grease to clean up the parts.  now you have your gear sleeve and bridge plate apart. 

the gear sleeve itself is another issue.  the brass at the top of the jigmaster gear sleeves is just too thin.  stainless steel is clearly better, but with a heavy bench vise, 1/8th inch hex bit and a 1/4-32 tap, you can fix it.  actually, now, you can fix them all!  it's just important now to limit the amount of drag you use and to make sure it's smooth.  greased carbon fiber will take care of the smoothness.  if you lean on the drag too hard, that's on you.  this can work!!!!

and remember that kid with the messed up reel?  40, 50, maybe 60 years ago, that kid was you........   

[alantani]

Out of curiosity, was the corroision that jammed froze the sleeve to the bridge rust on the bridge post or corrosion on the brass?   

I have never had a bridge in that condition, but I have used a good soak in Evaporust to free pinions stuck to the spool shaft by rust.  Still had to use a penetrating lube and rig a small gear puller, but the pinions came off easily enough. 

it was just salt water intrusion and rust.  when i'm working on these, i have it apart on the bench and will never move on to the next reel until it's done.  i don't have the time to let something soak overnight.  that's why it's gotta get done right then and there. 

even with pinion gears, they have to come off immediately.  i use two large flat screwdrivers, wedge them in at opposite sides and turn both handles clockwise to lift.  no pussy footing around in this shop!

[alantani]

think of all of this as just "getting back to our roots!"

[reelrepair123]

thank you alan for the fine tutorial.   it was great to learn the inside thread size of the bridge sleeve, question what is the outside thread size, for both fine thread and coarse thread, on the sleeve for the star drag i wish there was a chart for all the thread sizes on all the reels, thanks again,   harryk

[alantani]

it's possible to damage the outside threads as well.  that's why i put the star on first.  you can use the star to chase the outside threads and save the cost of a die.  someone here might know the size and thread, but i don't.  oh, and one more thing.  don't run the tap too deep.  it you do, the gear sleeve will wobble too much.