penn squall 50VSW cranking problem & more

Started by Navidad Nutcase, January 13, 2021, 10:53:07 PM

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Navidad Nutcase

Hi to all.  I am in Mexico and in the process of cleaning up an Amigo's international with a drag problem (posted elsewhere) Word got out that I can clean the internationals and now I may have to move here permanently - but, I don't think I can work for $4 an hour.
   However, this is the first Squall I've seen and I'm not going to attempt any takedown until someone can tell me if Penn added any of those nasty little springs that go flying when you take some innocent looking cover off. The problem with this Squall 50VSW  is #1, the further you move the drag up the ramp, the harder it is to crank. By mid-range you can't crank. When you shift into high gear,  you can barely crank it with any drag.
The guy that owns the reel can't tell me if someone's been into it or not. Therefore, I don't know if the problem was created by improper assembly or if it's from '' a bad something''.
I'll wait for any replies over the next few days.

   Problem #2 is with the button you pull out to shift gears. When you pull it out - you literally pull it out of the reel. The reel then shifts gears and all you have to do is put it back into the little hole. Maybe just a c clip missing. The button is very difficult to pull out. You can't really pull it out just far enough to shift gears. It always comes off the reel. Maybe your not suppose to pull on it. Perhaps it's a push to shift up, and push again to shift back down. However, as I said. I've never had one apart before.
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

akfish

If you can do an International you can do a Squall; they are similar save for the plastic frame on the Squall. The difficulty cranking is likely due to a bad pinion bearing (the bearing in the right side plate). Your guess on the button is likely correct: A c-clip has come off. Odds are it is floating around inside the reel.
Taku Reel Repair
Juneau, Alaska
907.789.2448

alantani

here is your schematic.  http://www.scottsbt.com/catalog/store/images/pennparts/schematics/sql50vswld2.pdf

the increasing difficulty cranking sounds like a bad pinion bearing, key #55.  being able to pull off the shifter button #172 likely means that the retainer #110c is somewhere on the deck of the boat, or at the bottom of the ocean.   :-\
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Navidad Nutcase

thanks for the information so far. Can anyone confirm or deny if this is a ''push'' button mechanism? By that I mean push once and the reel is in high gear and push again for low gear.  It seems awfully hard to get one's fingers ( more like fingernails) under this button to ''pull'' it in an ''out'' position. Probably why the c clip is laying in the garbage someplace.

I will tackle the takedown tomorrow. Might be a bit premature to ask but,  What would the result be if I switched it with the spool bearing. same part number? I know I will never find a bearing down here. I will see if I can clean it up at all first, and then repack it.
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

Navidad Nutcase

well, my date fell thru - probably figured at 72, I couldn't keep up - so I dove right into the reel instead. I didn't think it could get any simpler than an old international, but it did. These things come apart with ease.... Now, about that pushbutton contraption. Both spool bearings are shot but I can't figure out how to take the handle off, so I can remove the gears, so I can remove the right-hand frame bearing. It doesn't feel ruff but you just know if I replace both spool bearings without checking that end one, I'll be disassembling this thing again. I could hardly believe that I had not 2 but 6 new bearings in my stash. I think they are the same as the older international 50 bearings. My dilemma is that little gizmo on the pushbutton assembly with 2 tiny springs in it. I can't figure out how it comes off. It looks delicate so I'm not about to force it. Also, there is a retaining cap missing that holds the push button into the handle. That's why it pulls off, and I'm sure it's a push and turn - low gear, push and turn again for hi. However, that's a problem for another day. I will go no further in the stripping down of this reel until I get some advice on removing the handle assembly. I'll cruise thru some newer international tutorials. I had one of those newer reels apart a few years back and I think that piece with the little springs is mighty close to the same thing.
Cheers
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

alantani

#5
Quote from: Navidad Nutcase on January 14, 2021, 02:20:27 AM
well, my date fell thru - probably figured at 72, I couldn't keep up - so I dove right into the reel instead.

her loss.......

QuoteI didn't think it could get any simpler than an old international, but it did. These things come apart with ease.... Now, about that pushbutton contraption. Both spool bearings are shot but I can't figure out how to take the handle off, so I can remove the gears, so I can remove the right-hand frame bearing. It doesn't feel ruff but you just know if I replace both spool bearings without checking that end one, I'll be disassembling this thing again. I could hardly believe that I had not 2 but 6 new bearings in my stash. I think they are the same as the older international 50 bearings.

this is the international, right?  with the handle off, you depress the plunger inside the drive shaft about  halfway and then you can push the drive shaft and gears out as a unit.  

QuoteMy dilemma is that little gizmo on the pushbutton assembly with 2 tiny springs in it. I can't figure out how it comes off. It looks delicate so I'm not about to force it. Also, there is a retaining cap missing that holds the push button into the handle. That's why it pulls off, and I'm sure it's a push and turn - low gear, push and turn again for hi. However, that's a problem for another day.

now were talking about the squall, right?  it actually pries right up, but hold off a bit.  confirm that you want to remove the handle for the squall and i'll do a video as soon as i get a reel on the bench.  

QuoteI will go no further in the stripping down of this reel until I get some advice on removing the handle assembly. I'll cruise thru some newer international tutorials. I had one of those newer reels apart a few years back and I think that piece with the little springs is mighty close to the same thing. Cheers, Greg  

yeah, hold off a bit and i'll see what i have in some of the other boxes.  i'm pushing through to get these reels done.  i should be able to do a video clip pretty easily, though, once i find the right reel.  and, hey, maybe call her back later.  you never know.....   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Navidad Nutcase

o.k. another update.... I found a ''service update'' here somewhere about removing the button and all that assembly from a Penn 50 vs or v something. It was identical to the piece I couldn't remove. Got it off, gears out, but I don't think the righthand bearing comes out of the side plate. It sure looked like the side plate was poured around it. I don't know. anyway, it is smooth so it's getting left in there. The right-hand spool bearings (there are 2 ) are smaller than anything I have. One is a bit ruff sounding, the other silent and smooth. My only choice at this stage of the game is to swap places - put the outside one in and the inside one out. They sit side by side so it may help a bit. If it doesn't work, well the guy will have to find new ones someplace.

Enough for tonight. Time goes by when you keep busy. Just realized it's 11 bells. time for bed.  to be continued......

thanks, everyone. good advice is always appreciated
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

Navidad Nutcase

Good Morning from Mexico. A good night's sleep sharpened my mind and I remembered a stash of bearings for my Penn 12's. Could it be? YES ! the frame bearing for a 12H is the same as the 2 spool bearings on the R. hand side. Problem is, I have only 1. I put the new one to the outside ( in the metal drag plate), the used one that I could detect nothing wrong with ( my hearings about 60% of normal) into the frame, the spring between them, put it all back together and....  sorry that's where the luck ran out. Same problem. Ramp up the drag past 1/4 and the tightness starts. At half, you can barely turn the handle (reel off the rod ) These reels are so simple that it has to be the remaining bearings. There are no shims nor spacers at iether end of the belleville cluster. No shim on the left-hand side.

So that's where it's at until #1, someone confirms or denies the R. Hand frame bearing does indeed come out, and #2, the owner finds a bearing supplier. I'd like to say I'm going back to my fishing. However, the red tide is getting worse and the blue 78-degree water is at 30 miles. Too far for these old bones to get tossed around in a Panga. Besides, a knock on my door at 8 a.m. netted me another job. Jerky drag on an older International 20.

Sure hope someone can clear up this bearing extraction issue for me.

Adios
Greg

P.script...the size of the frame bearings are 10x26x8 MILLIMETERS for anybody that may need that info down the road
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

alantani

greg, the bearing in the right side plate that supports the pinion gear/drive shaft assembly is most certainly the culprit.  it will come out.  it's probably just stuck.   :-\
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Navidad Nutcase

well, I sure like it when these stories have a happy ending.  Alan, you were right - AGAIN. Experience speaks for itself. That right side plate bearing did come out after much tapping to loosen the rust. I had mentioned last night it seemed smooth. Well, that smoothness was the pinion gear running inside the race. The bearing was seized solid. The owner can pick up an additional spool bearing when he finds a supplier. The used one cleaned up nicely. No pitted ball bearings that I could see. re-packed and installed next to the new Penn 12H bearing I had(there are 2 identical bearings on the drag side of the reel. Separated by the coil drag spring.)

As far as the 2-speed push button goes. It stays in the reel if you don't PULL on it. It's a ''push and turn'' mechanism, not a ''push-pull like the older Penns these boys are accustomed to using. If he's careful with it, it will work fine until I can send him a new cap (Part#110C). Tat is IF I ever leave this little place.   :)

2 reels fixed out of two. That's better odds than my fishing has been giving me.

Adios, and thanks for all the help and thanks Alan, for this great website
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

handi2

I stole some pictures from Alan's 50VSW tutorial. The Squall uses the same two speed and handle retaining hardware.

The first picture shows the missing or damaged part that keep the shifter button in place.

Keith
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

Navidad Nutcase

Thanks Keith.
That is all intact. I too stole - from the internet. it's not even close to a squall but the knurled piece around the shifting button is missing from this reel. The shifting button does not come out of the reel unless you really pull on it. And, as I will mention to the owner, there is no need to pull on it.

I just opened an old 20 international. I'll post a couple pictures later. It's unbelievable what - and WHY - someone will do what they do sometimes.
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.