Notes on belleville configuration for 50TW to configure reel for 120# class line

Started by williewiskers, February 03, 2021, 08:49:40 PM

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williewiskers

***THIS IS A REPLACED-POST DUE TO APPARENT SERVER DATA LOSS. IT WAS RECOVERED FROM MY BROWSER CACHE***


The stock belleville configuration for a 50TW from Penn is two 18-50w inverted and two 18-50tw inverted like this ()(). On Mystic Part's site they also refer to these two different spring washers as "light" and "heavy".



These belleville spring washers are also available on McMaster-Carr's website

Penn P/N 18-50w (light) = McMaster P/N 96445K246   which has a working load of 168# and a flat-out load of 208#

Penn P/N 18-50tw (heavy) = McMaster P/N 96445K568   which has a working load of 236# and a flat-out load of 297#

***Used in the stock inverted configuration ()() actualizes a "stepped engagement" due to the two different inverted spring pressures, but a fully engaged stock working pressure of 236#  - as determined by the two inverted heavy springs of a higher pressure***


Note from McMaster-Carr website on belleville spring washers...

"Springs may be stacked to increase working load and deflection. In a nested stack, working load is multiplied by the number of springs used, while deflection remains unchanged. In an inverted stack, deflection is multiplied by the number of springs used, while the working load remains unchanged. In a nested and inverted stack, both load and deflection are increased."

This translates to the following...

(((( = "fully nested stack"
(()) = "nested and inverted stack"
()() = "fully inverted stack"




To achieve my goal of making this 50TW a 120# lineweight reel I wanted 30# drag at STRIKE and 50# at FULL with a linear drag progression from first engagement to STRIKE with freespool.

I "almost" achieved all my goals perfectly with the following configuration using new stock Penn washers from Mystic, "heavy-heavy, heavy-heavy, light", arranged like this... (()) ). The cumulative working pressure of this stack is 876# -3.7x the stock working pressure!

This arrangement gave me... (with greased HT-100 drag washer)
- 5# drag at first engagement
- 30# drag at STRIKE
- 47# drag at FULL        (these are "first motion" numbers, "consistent pull" numbers were 2-3# HIGHER)
- virtually perfect linear proportional drag progression from first-engagement to STRIKE

There remained very "slight" contact tension on the spool. So little that I could not measure it with my spring scale, but it was there none-the-less, maybe a few onces of drag. The line dropped seemingly freely from gravity with just the weight of the small Shimano 50# spring scale hanging from it.



This is my research as I have collected it. If you use this information and reproduce my result, or a different one, please let me know by posting so here.


NOTE: My 50TW predated the addition of schematic parts, "13B-50TW Sleeve, Spool Sleeve" and "173-50T Bushing, Spool Bushing". I ordered both and only utilized the spool sleeve, otherwise referred to as a, "freespool sleeve". I tried to use spool bushing but found it to serve no ascertainable purpose but to be ground up by the main gear due to impinging on necessary clearance between the face of the main gear and the click plate. Alan states that the bushing can be omitted without worry.

alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

williewiskers


mwgdc31

Quote from: williewiskers on February 03, 2021, 08:49:40 PM***THIS IS A REPLACED-POST DUE TO APPARENT SERVER DATA LOSS. IT WAS RECOVERED FROM MY BROWSER CACHE***


The stock belleville configuration for a 50TW from Penn is two 18-50w inverted and two 18-50tw inverted like this ()(). On Mystic Part's site they also refer to these two different spring washers as "light" and "heavy".

This is great info.
Is there any chance you would know the McMaster belleville would be for an original International 80?
Having trouble getting enough drag w/out losing freespool. 
Currently have (()) setup with freespool, 30# at strike, 42# at full.
Have original Penn bellevilles, thinking new will help.



These belleville spring washers are also available on McMaster-Carr's website

Penn P/N 18-50w (light) = McMaster P/N 96445K246   which has a working load of 168# and a flat-out load of 208#

Penn P/N 18-50tw (heavy) = McMaster P/N 96445K568   which has a working load of 236# and a flat-out load of 297#

***Used in the stock inverted configuration ()() actualizes a "stepped engagement" due to the two different inverted spring pressures, but a fully engaged stock working pressure of 236#  - as determined by the two inverted heavy springs of a higher pressure***


Note from McMaster-Carr website on belleville spring washers...

"Springs may be stacked to increase working load and deflection. In a nested stack, working load is multiplied by the number of springs used, while deflection remains unchanged. In an inverted stack, deflection is multiplied by the number of springs used, while the working load remains unchanged. In a nested and inverted stack, both load and deflection are increased."

This translates to the following...

(((( = "fully nested stack"
(()) = "nested and inverted stack"
()() = "fully inverted stack"




To achieve my goal of making this 50TW a 120# lineweight reel I wanted 30# drag at STRIKE and 50# at FULL with a linear drag progression from first engagement to STRIKE with freespool.

I "almost" achieved all my goals perfectly with the following configuration using new stock Penn washers from Mystic, "heavy-heavy, heavy-heavy, light", arranged like this... (()) ). The cumulative working pressure of this stack is 876# -3.7x the stock working pressure!

This arrangement gave me... (with greased HT-100 drag washer)
- 5# drag at first engagement
- 30# drag at STRIKE
- 47# drag at FULL        (these are "first motion" numbers, "consistent pull" numbers were 2-3# HIGHER)
- virtually perfect linear proportional drag progression from first-engagement to STRIKE

There remained very "slight" contact tension on the spool. So little that I could not measure it with my spring scale, but it was there none-the-less, maybe a few onces of drag. The line dropped seemingly freely from gravity with just the weight of the small Shimano 50# spring scale hanging from it.



This is my research as I have collected it. If you use this information and reproduce my result, or a different one, please let me know by posting so here.


NOTE: My 50TW predated the addition of schematic parts, "13B-50TW Sleeve, Spool Sleeve" and "173-50T Bushing, Spool Bushing". I ordered both and only utilized the spool sleeve, otherwise referred to as a, "freespool sleeve". I tried to use spool bushing but found it to serve no ascertainable purpose but to be ground up by the main gear due to impinging on necessary clearance between the face of the main gear and the click plate. Alan states that the bushing can be omitted without worry.