Steelhead/salmon rods

Started by JasonGotaProblem, February 04, 2021, 03:23:35 PM

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JasonGotaProblem

There is clearly something I'm failing to understand. Namely why are these awesome looking rods so affordable compared to other categories of spinning rods? Like I cant get a 7' lamiglas blank for under $120 but i can get a 11' lamiglas ultralight rod for $110 shipped? And why have I never seen this category of reasonably priced rod at a tackle shop in FL? I'm sure the quick answer is "we don't have steelheads or salmon here."
Well yeah, i know. But is there something about this category of rod that makes it so hyper specialized that it can't be used for other types of fishing where one would seek a longer ultralight rod to cast light lures stupid far? What am I missing here?
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

oldmanjoe

  I don`t want to start a"snow " storm  , but when i was a little boy fishing rod did not have labels .
Go to the local store , shake and bend some cheap poles  , then the expensive ones .
  Look at the guide trains ............
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

philaroman

as I understand, Lami outsourced their low-end to China...
not same animal as their US-made high-end, but OK
you're actually paying a mark-up for Lami name, but it's less of a crap-shoot
you can find same PRC quality, cheaper

personally, I'm a fan of Salm/SH rods & Carp rods as light Surf options, or longer Inshore

JasonGotaProblem

#3
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 04, 2021, 04:00:10 PM
 I don`t want to start a"snow " storm  , but when i was a little boy fishing rod did not have labels .
Go to the local store , shake and bend some cheap poles  , then the expensive ones .
 Look at the guide trains ............
Sorta my point. A rod is a rod. Specs are specs. How you use it is up to you. It seems like the physical location of the sellers for such rods are all in the Midwest or further, like these rods are only readily available in places that have steelheads or salmon. When i don't see why this wouldn't be awesome for long distance bass or far away redfish or many other species that live more than 50yds from shore. And the naming convention chosen seems to be the reason why they aren't sold here, and now I'm just plain annoyed.
Quote from: philaroman on February 04, 2021, 04:35:25 PM
as I understand, Lami outsourced their low-end to China...
not same animal as their US-made high-end, but OK
you're actually paying a mark-up for Lami name, but it's less of a crap-shoot
you can find same PRC quality, cheaper

personally, I'm a fan of Salm/SH rods & Carp rods as light Surf options, or longer Inshore

I just used that one as an example, but that does explain a lot. there's lots of options in the $40-$80 range from other companies. And now I want one.

"Screw you, cat tails and other shoreline vegetation! I'll fish right over you!"
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

oldmanjoe

  :o    You might want to check out thrift shops , Salvation army stores and yard sales .
   Some dead guy`s wife is selling all his 5 dollar rods !!!!
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

JasonGotaProblem

Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 04, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
  :o    You might want to check out thrift shops , Salvation army stores and yard sales .
   Some dead guy`s wife is selling all his 5 dollar rods !!!!
My secret technique is to search CL for misspellings. I've picked up a few cheap "diawa" and "peen" reels, including one 6500SSV I got for less than i paid to spool it. They couldnt figure out why their post got no action. So being the only one to respond they took my lowball offer. But for real, at any given time if there's 30 daiwa listings there's probably 12 "diawa" listings. none of which know the true value of their items.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

Jim Fujitani

It works on EBay too!  At least once for me, anyway. 

I got a custom, almost new, "Calstor" 760M (a "troller" with AFTCO rollers) for $89.  The builder had written the make and model in script.  The lister had inherited the rod from her late father.  She had no idea what to ask for the rod since there were no matches on the spelling.  She listed it for $89 to start, but had received no activity over the Thanksgiving Holiday period.  I had offered the asking price and she accepted it.   

happyhooker

The old salmon/SH rods I have seen are very slow action, with flex down to the handle.  A lot of folks want fast action rods these days, with flex mostly in the tip and a stiff handle/butt area.  I think that explains a lot as to why they are not popular these days, except for S/SH anglers using the techniques that call for these rods, or the few others that like slow action for whatever purposes.  I  myself have an old Shakespeare S/SH rod ( I think it is 8 or 9 ft--rather short for these rods) that I have converted to a "long casting" spinning rod, and it does launch lures as far as any rod I have.  Many of these rods are several feet longer than that, which might also scare off the angler who has never used anything (barring a fly rod) longer than, say, seven feet.

Frank

Swami805

While you can use a salmon steelhead rod for anything they are designed for that fishery, small hooks realitvely light line and fish with soft mouths. You need a forgiving rod.
You might look into crappie rods to find a similar action long rod marketed to a different group without deep pockets. Basspro sells some built long light rods for pretty cheap, I have a couple I use for surf perch fishing with small grubs. Pretty good bang for the buck
Do what you can with that you have where you are

philaroman

#9
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on February 04, 2021, 05:29:49 PM

I just used that one as an example, but that does explain a lot. there's lots of options in the $40-$80 range from other companies. And now I want one.

"Screw you, cat tails and other shoreline vegetation! I'll fish right over you!"

BAD idea, IMO...  I got crap dipping into that price-range SSH,
did much better paying clearance prices for "next rung up" Cabelas FE-II (discontinued)
good Chinese IM-6 well-wrapped w/ all Fuji components (Hardloy?  ...pre-Alconite)
some design issues that could use a partial re-build, but still an excellent value

in general, just assume the actions are a bit more moderate then you'd expect,
for modern graphite...  more so, for old glass

do consider crappie rods for great rebuild candidate:
just leave the tip section w/ its 8-10 tiny guides, as is, and rebuild the butt
for longer handle, higher seat, and proper spinning reduction train
there's a place that offers spare tip sections for some 12-footers ($20?)
could make alternate butts from appropriate broken L/ML

steelfish

few years back some guys in Puerto Vallarta, Mex and here in Baja, Mex (myself included) saw those Salmon /steelhead as a option for "light" surf fishing since there are many small and medium sized fish on the shore that offered no battle to the normal surf fishing rods 11ft 20-30, 25-50 3-6oz lure, etc, so, we started using those Salmon rods to cast light lures far to ocean, now there are brands that offer light surf fishing rods but they are kind of expensive (maybe because they are from that small niche of surf fishermen).
shimano convergence and scimitar were some of the favorites because of the price and quality.
I have posted this pic few times but clearly show that a long 13ft salmon rod can be used for light surf fishing
When we wanted to cast heavier lures but still considered light lures for normal surf rods we used/use Carp rods, which are also pretty long and pretty parabolic, my favorite was a Cabelas predator 11ft rod, I could cast 1oz lures and 1.5oz pretty far, I also used it for fishing with bait and used 3/4 egg weights + bait and could sent it to the moon


* 1st picture, I was using a 3/4oz Krocodile spoon and caught a 1# seabass or seatrout which was a blast on that rod and a small 2500 shimano sonora reel with 6# mono light, the rod is German rod "Balzer" 13ft 3-pc  25gr lure (max 7/8oz)  that I bought at the FredHall show back in 2009

* 2nd picture, I was casting a Yo-zury freshwater crackbait that I changed the hooks for SW, lure is less than 1/2 oz and the reel was also a Shimano Sonora 4000 with 20# braid and 20# mono, the Rod is also a Balzer brand but this one is just 10ft long 2-pc 25gr lure (7/8oz)

* 3rd picture with the Cabela's Predator carp rod 11ft , on that rod I could use a big Daiwa emcast sport reel or a small casting saltist 20h with no problem
The Baja Guy

philaroman

precisely...  SSH for up to 1.5 oz.; Carp for 1-3 oz.; for more, get a proper Surf Rod
Predators are glass (E?) -- well-beloved blank in Carp community w/ minor complaints about guides

here's the most interesting model from the crappie guys that offer spare tips <$20:
https://www.grizzlyjig.com/p-21-grizzly-elite-jiggin-rod.aspx
never tried, but sure it's a good blank -- find some feedback on guide quality

Benni3

I got 2 tfo 9ft searunners,,,they used to be the steelhead salmon rod,,,,, ;) they just changed the name for inshore use,,,,,, :D my favorite rod is the 10ft black hole Suzuki it's like a fly rod converted to a spin,,, but it's made for surf,,,,,,,,, ;D

philaroman

I think I was asking about a lighter Suzuki, while back & ksong mentioned
another Black Hole model w/ similar action & lighter specs. (9'6" or 9' ? )

JasonGotaProblem

I've got my 11' penn prevail surf rod. I can throw 3-5oz of meat + lead + 40# braid about 100 yards on a good day. But you need to hook one heck of a fish to really get much feeling on that, and if there's no current to fight i'd like to not have to use much, if any lead if possible.. I just want something lighter that I can throw free line shrimp and soft plastics a mile away on 10# braid.

A 12' light rod just sounds like the ticket. They describe some of them as being fast taper. But some 7' light rods described as "fast" are still kinda floppy just because they're thin. I can only imagine that in 12' is probably a noodle. And I bet with some practice I'd be able to launch it. I've got just the reel for the job.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.