Have I become spoiled?

[steelfish]

...I've already sold ...

there you have it, thats what I mean, not necessary that I NEED to sell my 5.8ft XXH trevala, heck I can rebuild it but it works really good as its right now, but I prefer to build me another jigging rod outta a blackhole blank or Zeus UC blank with my grips, reelseat and guides of choice.

..... My next conquest is to turn my 11' penn prevail into a Jeri-inspired African style surf rod.

just dont forget that some results are more notorious on changes over a good quality blanks as the ones Jeri use than on an economic factory rod that just had the guides changed, but Im with you on this buddy, go for it, I might change the guides also on a 9ft tsunami airwave I bought many years ago, it has some BIG and heavy fuji Hardloy guides, I have plans to install fuji KR concept on it KW guides and single foot on running guides on it, but that plan is way too low on my long list of pending jobs right now.


IMO if you are going to change everything on a factory rod and just leave the blank that you are not particularly attached to or its not that great quality to install $100- 150 worth of new components on it, you better off selling it and build a brand new rod with new tech and not that expensive as some out there, if its for economic or learning purposes then go for it, my two main reason for restoring rods.

the great thing about rod building is that you can actually do whatever you want to do with your rod without following any rules, while many guys just have the option to pay premium to use premium rods or pay what they can pay and look for a rod that adjust to the wallet, ooh and be happy with the length or components of the factory rod.

there is an old saying in the rodbuilding community that says:  Friends dont let friends fish factory rods
more because of the feeling to use something completely build by you than actually for the choice of blank or components over a factory rod.

[thorhammer]

I have to agree...when you get into 200 buck range, I expect quality; maybe the name markets the price point but this ain't a sweater with a color that will be out of style next fall....it should last. RARELY do I buy new equipment...just like a vehicle, I'll let someone else test drive and I buy higher quality at a discount after. The kicker is, if you're in a position to wait around for a deal. I bit ago, I picked up two Penn International bent-butt 80 IGFA rods, about a season old, for $125 apiece. I should've bought the whole stand- looked like someone with a sporty needed quick cash and pawned off the whole set. Point being, I got a six hundred dollar rod (2) for less than I would pay for the butt, if I were building from scratch.

Let us know how the South African conversion goes....in some cases nice blanks have crappy guides and just need a makeover.

Alex, if you get around to cutting off the Fuji's, if they be Hardloy, I'll buy them from you. They are great for making durable pitch rods in an excited cockpit.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Let's be clear I don't expect to achieve Jeri-like results or quality. I just wanna play with the concept. And you can't get a heavy 11' non-noodle graphite blank for less than 120 anywhere, this rod cost 90 and it was a gift. I spent 22 on the KLH guide set and 10 on the seat. I'll probably paracord and shrink wrap the handle and I already have a ton of paracord. I'll probably be $50 + time into this conversion.

And if it doesn't work out I'll move the reel seat up.

[steelfish]

Alex, if you get around to cutting off the Fuji's, if they be Hardloy, I'll buy them from you. They are great for making durable pitch rods in an excited cockpit.

how time and new materials changes the way to see the things, I must say that few years ago the main reason I went to pick that Tsunami rod over a Penn or shimano rod, it was because it was cheaper and IT HAD Fuji Hardloy guides and fuji reelseat, go figure!! they are really good rod guides that are less prone to crack on a hit or fall than more expensive Alconite or Sic material but much better than alum oxide, they also look good!!

for the kind of fish I can catch on surf fishing on local waters that rod is excellent the way it is, If I can cast 15-20yds more I will still catch the same kind of fish, thats the main reason its at the bottom on my list of pending jobs, but If change the guides I will let you know.

[the rockfish ninja]

I got this one because i had picked up a used one super cheap from the previous generation.

There seems to be a big gap in quality between the two generations for some reason. I also have one from the previous generation (purple-ish color) and it's been a solid performer, I've caught plenty of stripers & Halibut on it, even pulled in a 50lb stingray with it.

I've looked at the new ones, wasn't impressed and heard not so good things about them, even though they have good reviews.

[Jeri]

A number of things coming from this thread that perhaps warrant comment.

Have found that the 'person' aspect of a custom built rod, rather than country of origin has more significance. Where or the nationality of the custom rod builder has little to do with the final outcome. I'm an Englishman (historically not favoured by South Africans) living in Namibia (considered a poor backward country by South Africans), yet have a queue outside my workshop of South Africans wanting my products over custom rods from their own country. Go figure?

Nearly all rod building companies in the major league build to appropriate sections of the market place, with products priced to suit those market positions. We see a lot of main manufacturers building only their very top line surf rods with Fuji guides, then working down the price range of guides and components for lower spec products, until you get to the very serious cheapies. It is just an element of market forces, though perhaps to a few a poor portrayal of a cherished or revered name.

Jason, I'd be very circumspect of a rebuilt Prevail, while they suit the market place they were intended for, they are very soft in nature, and distinctly 'C' curve, from the few that I have seen over here. The issue is that you can't load them adequately in the cast to get serious distance, they are just too flexible down a lot of the length - hence 'C' curve.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers from a very hot Africa - 41 degrees C today!!!

[JasonGotaProblem]

Jason, I'd be very circumspect of a rebuilt Prevail, while they suit the market place they were intended for, they are very soft in nature, and distinctly 'C' curve, from the few that I have seen over here. The issue is that you can't load them adequately in the cast to get serious distance, they are just too flexible down a lot of the length - hence 'C' curve.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers from a very hot Africa - 41 degrees C today!!!

Nationality has never been the problem. Mass production and decline in quality are the problems

Interesting you say these are a C curve, I didn't think so. This thing feels like a very long broomstick, and calls itself a fast taper. The stuff you build is stiffer than this? Also I believe I remember you saying you're building rods to throw 10-16oz when this thing is only labeled for 6oz.

This brings up an interesting question. Does your style of build not work with a floppier rod, or is it just not gonna reach its full potential?

Stay cool down there. That sounds brutal.

[boon]

It sounds like what you have there is a rod designed to catch fishermen first, with fish a secondary consideration.

That's more often the case with lures, but does happen occasionally with other equipment.

Some of my better gear is fairly plain to look at. But has high end components and a good blank underneath. Only the very highest of high end seems to combine aesthetics AND performance.

[Jeri]

Nationality has never been the problem. Mass production and decline in quality are the problems

Interesting you say these are a C curve, I didn't think so. This thing feels like a very long broomstick, and calls itself a fast taper. The stuff you build is stiffer than this? Also I believe I remember you saying you're building rods to throw 10-16oz when this thing is only labeled for 6oz.

This brings up an interesting question. Does your style of build not work with a floppier rod, or is it just not gonna reach its full potential?

Stay cool down there. That sounds brutal.

Quality is defined by the bean counters at whatever company is doing the purchasing. Built 'down' to a price.

We build on a whole range of blanks, the majority being on 'J' curve, from 2-3oz right up to heavy weights designed for 8oz sinkers + bait. Some of the blanks are stiffer for class than others depending on the what we are proposing as the user group. A full competition level 6oz rod is going to be stiffer than a social angler 6oz rod - to accommodate the users skills and strengths - designing rods for individual people, not for a mass market stereotype.

The design concept we use will work on 'C' curve blanks, though have found that most of the far east mass produced blanks rarely use some of the higher priced higher strength carbons in their composition, which is possibly where any issue might come in. Our standard 6oz blanks will take a test curve (bend to 90 degrees) with anything from 8-17kgs (18-38lbs) - depending on which style we are building.

You'll have to find out the hard way whether it 'works', which will be dependant on what you expect from the rod at the end of the day.

Cooling forecast for today - just 38 degrees ............

[Jeri]

Jason, another aspect to consider is the 'rating' that someone has placed on your blank. We have a full tournament class blank rated for 6oz, and every time we build one for a client, they almost exclusively use a 7oz sinker + bait with it, it is that powerful and local casting styles just can't generate the power needed to compress the blank, yet on the tournament field, the blank has recorded over 270 metres with just a 6oz sinker. By the same token, I have a personal blank that I rated as 6oz, and used it as such for a long time with great effect, yet more recently with the onset of arthritis, I'm finding I get a huge increase in distance with just a 5oz sinker and a more refined casting technique.

Mass produced rods are renowned for being optimistic in their ratings the higher numbers convince the purchaser they are getting something better. Perhaps a 5oz sinker with the Prevail might be an option worth testing when you tape on the guides and do the testing before the build.

[Decker]

Wow, Alex, beautiful work! 

[Keta]

Spoiled....no, more like you are learning what you like and what works for you.

Sadly "New and Improved" is a euphemism for same #### but less of it in a new package and/or cheeper product at a higher price.   

[JasonGotaProblem]

After test casting into a tree a couple times to try out the KL-H guides on the prevail, yes it's definitely more of a C curve. I hadnt tested it against an immovable object yet. Against some small sharks it had seemed like a stiff J curve.

I decided I'm gonna leave the reel seat in the stock position for now. I've also been musing about the idea of giving it 2 reel seats, one low and one high. It would be absurd so i probably wouldn't actually do it. But I've been musing. I do intend to tape on the reel in the low position and throw a few casts to see if I like it better. It's a 2 piece with all guides now on the top section (lowest is now currently 150 cm above reel seat) so I can change the reel seat later without unwrapping the guides.

So the line doesn't touch the blank at all on casting, but it slaps it like my mom when i talked back as a kid on the retrieval. I assume that's of minimal concern.

[Jeri]

After test casting into a tree a couple times to try out the KL-H guides on the prevail, yes it's definitely more of a C curve. I hadnt tested it against an immovable object yet. Against some small sharks it had seemed like a stiff J curve.

I decided I'm gonna leave the reel seat in the stock position for now. I've also been musing about the idea of giving it 2 reel seats, one low and one high. It would be absurd so i probably wouldn't actually do it. But I've been musing. I do intend to tape on the reel in the low position and throw a few casts to see if I like it better. It's a 2 piece with all guides now on the top section (lowest is now currently 150 cm above reel seat) so I can change the reel seat later without unwrapping the guides.

So the line doesn't touch the blank at all on casting, but it slaps it like my mom when i talked back as a kid on the retrieval. I assume that's of minimal concern.

Just what set of KL-H guides are you using?

150cm from the reel seems close, but nothing to be causing the line slap on retrieval. Just spent the day fishing a competition in the surf, with a rod set at 210cm from the reel to the first KL-H25, no line slap what so ever. Never notice slap on retrieve in all the time I have been working on this scheme.

In the instance of your reel seat position, a lot of UK surf rods are built with a full heat shrink handle all the way up the lower section, and then they use 'Coasters' as the mechanism for holding the reel in place, so they just fix the reel on anywhere over the shrink grip.

www.guidesnblanks.com/p/coaster_clips           or  www.guidesnblanks.com/p/deluxe_coaster_clips

[JasonGotaProblem]

That's not a bad idea. I was thinking maybe something Tennessee style as well.

I am using a set that has a 25, 16, 12, 8 i think, then 6 6's. Black frame alconite if it matters.

So I'm pretty happy with the casting, i was throwing a tennis ball 90 yds with a cross breeze. I expected to go test cast it and see something needing to move. But there's no bunching and no line slap on casting, and it's pretty quiet. What are the odds I got it right on the first try? I don't wanna be lazy but it seems fine how I put it? I'll try to get some pics.