Storing reels - back off when carbon drags installed?

Started by iclypso, January 07, 2022, 03:38:29 AM

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iclypso

Does anyone have first-hand experience with the effects of storing a carbon fiber washer equipped reel with the drag at a fishable setting?  Do we need to keep backing off on the preset knob or is storing in freespool adequate?  When the question has been asked on other forums, it seems like most folks who back off the drags for storage are doing so because that's what they've heard they should do or because that's what grandpappy used to do.  Maybe this was important with materials that can take a compression set like cork or fabric but a carbon fiber matrix should be much less likely to do so, IMO.  Finally, I'm asking here because I know Alan puts measured drag stickers at strike and other positions, and backing off the drag preset knob would invalidate those values until measured again.  I recently purchased a reel that Alan serviced and the previous owner kept the preset knob in the position where it was when the drag measurements were taken.

alantani

when you push the lever back to free, the drag is disengaged.  all done!!!!!  ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

RowdyW

That won't work in a star drag wheel, and only in a lever drag reel if & when the lever is backed off all the way & there is free spool.           Rudy

alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

jurelometer

I wouldn't be surprise if it is driven mostly by tradition. I get that it makes sense not to store an elastic system under tension if it is not necessary. But how bad is it?

Elasticity vs. plasticity of the materials subjected to clamping force is the question.  And a good one.  If there is no permanent (AKA plastic) deformation of the drag washers or springs involved, then there is no permanent damage from leaving a drag tight.  So what happens?

With a lever drag, the main clamping load is provided by the cam, so plastic deformation is not going to be much of  an issue.  There are some lighter coil springs that are uncompressed to keep the drag surfaces apart in freespool. Plus another spring for tension on the drag preset knob.  Over time these springs could lose some of their tension, but I would suspect it would take a lot of time and still would not be critical. 

On star drags,  there are often belleville involved in the clamping load.  But again, belleville springs are pretty durable.  I have seen the scrawnier coil spring on fly reel cork drags get soggy with age.  But if you store a cork drag clamped, you will have bigger problems.

If the drag stack includes a washer made of a material that will creep (deform) more readily (like nylon), than this can become an issue, but this is unlikely with a quality saltwater reel.

I think that the main issue is that the clamping load on drag surface is not perfectly distributed.  This means that there will be more compressive force on one part of the drag surfaces over a long period of time.  This was a big problem with old time drag waster materials that could deform pretty significantly.

Here is some speculation:  With modern carbon fiber drags, the effect is more subtle,  pushing out lubricant and potentially shifting drag fibers around a bit. If you look at the surface of drag, it is made up of of unencased tows (strands)  woven together, each a strand made up of a  bundle of (thousands?) of individual fibers, so I presume that fibers could shift around a little under extended load and sort of flatten a bundle or three.  Over time, this lubricant and/or material shift could cause the  difference between both static (startup) and dynamic (moving) coefficients of friction to vary depending  on the relative positions of the drags surfaces at a given  moment.  This will make the drag more sticky. 

I have experienced modern carbon fiber drag reels that have been stored with the drag very tight for a couple weeks to occasionally  be a bit sticky until the drag gets some run.  More of a problem with star drags - probably because the clamping load tends to be more uneven. But I have not in my limited experience had  a modern carbon reel that has not eventually worked out the kinks.  IMHO, this is still enough reason to not  store a reel with the drag tightened.

I am curious if the repair pros that have seen a lot of abused reels have ever seen a modern carbon drag reel that actually needed replacement parts from being stored with the drag locked down, as opposed to at most a service. 

-J

Wompus Cat

As in a lot of things in Life this ol' adage comes in to play


USE IT OR LOSE IT
If a Grass Hopper Carried a Shotgun then the Birds wouldn't MESS with Him

Gfish

Good question. An real malleable substance like a neoprene cap gasket can get permanently compressed from too much tightening. The clicking clutch(over tighten prevention)mechanism on a modern vehicle's fuel cap comes to mind. But carbon fiber is radically different. All of what Dave said🤔, can't add any detail to that. But, it'ed be cool if someone could test it over time.

My GUESS would be yeah, the drag washer(s) would flatten-out over a "long" period of storage time under drag pressure and the springs would weaken. So,  when you break it out again(or buy it used), a pre-set dial on a leverdrag reel would have to be readjusted and it might be better if some parts were replaced.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

PacRat

Something I learned here (I wish I had learned it decades ago) is to always tighten your drag while rinsing to keep water out of it. Then loosen it only after it is completely dry and before puting it into storage for any length of time.