looking for alternatives for Hotmelt stick glue for tiptop repairs

[steelfish]

currently using the hotmelt stick glue from FUJI and 95% happy with the results for around 7-9 years but I have had few saltwater 60lb rods with the tip softened because of the hot sun of this zone (desert of Baja, Mx), so, in those cases I repaired the tip under warranty on my side but used 5-min epoxy hoping to dont need to repair that tip soon or never.
so, I have few questions here.
1. what are you guys using for gluing the tiptop on 60lb and UP saltwater fishing rods
2. I saw that 3M sells some hotglue sticks for the undustry, maybe the FUJI ones are just those but cut it on smaller size and sold by 5x the price (nothing new here) or maybe this 3M hotglue offer a bit better adhesion than the ones sold for the fishing industry.
3. found this one SUREBONDER professional hotmelt glue sticks which offer a Construction grade bond and high temps, also the package give you lots more for $18 dlls than 5 small sticks of fuji have anyone hear about this product?  would it worth the risk?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079N79WRM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B079N79WRM&pd_rd_w=P64cI&content-id=amzn1.sym.88097cb9-5064-44ef-891b-abfacbc1c44b&pf_rd_p=88097cb9-5064-44ef-891b-abfacbc1c44b&pf_rd_r=9E1F1CT2NYTCXFHW3D1P&pd_rd_wg=i9mxy&pd_rd_r=6a4b0497-9175-41c5-8936-d908c52254d4&s=industrial&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&smid=AKV00V1PWEUK1&language=en_US


my "problem" is that I normally buy 2 sticks of fuji hotmelt glue but its not weird to find that I only have a small piece of one stick left, and order just one to make it "expensive" because of the shipping charges and my PO box fee, etc. so Im looking for another option but if its not avail then I will just have to order 3-4 fuji sticks, but pretty sure I will find me in the same position later on 

[JasonGotaProblem]

Man i just always use 5 min epoxy for tips, ever since I had one melt off on a summer day. It'll still come off with some heat, but not the kind it'll feel on a sunny day.

[Gfish]

Would non-permanent thread-lock work?

[Swami805]

The stuff I use is called ferrule cement, used to glue the feathers on an arrow too. Never had a problem with it coming loose. I get it from voodoo

[jurelometer]

Man i just always use 5 min epoxy for tips, ever since I had one melt off on a summer day. It'll still come off with some heat, but not the kind it'll feel on a sunny day.

Same issue here with the old tech ferrule cement sticks. It gets wayyy hot in Baja in the summer (as Alex is probably noticed ) Some of the rod building boards and archery sites mention the higher temp flavor of Ferr-L-Tite.  Maybe this is the product (or equivalent) that Sherman is recommending. 

Like Jason, I switched to 5 min epoxy. When I need to replace the tip I hold with a pair of pliers and apply light twisting force while using just  a flick of heat with a lighter on the metal tube  and pull off the tip before the blank gets hot.  Worked every time so far.

I only use those plain old regular glue sticks for wood cabinetry because they are such a weak adhesive.  Holds the hardware and slides  in place for a "dry" fit before drilling the screw holes.  Pops right off if I need to reposition.  I would be reluctant to use this stuff as a ferrule cement.  It softens at a low temp, not a strong adhesive, and doesn't get very hard when cool.

Would non-permanent thread-lock work?

Not something that I have ever tried.

We usually want something that can fill a larger void and stay in place, but thread-lockers are designed to be runny to get into the gaps between threads.  Plus depending on the flavor, they either need torque or high temp to release.  Would be toward the end of my list of adhesives to try.

-J

[handi2]

Where I live the summer highs get over 100F.

I've never had a problem with the normal tip top glue that comes with the assorted tip tops

[Keta]

I detest using epoxy on tip tops, the top guide tends to wear more and epoxy is forever.

https://www.hotmelt.com/blogs/blog/high-temp-hot-melt-vs-low-temp-hot-melt

[Breadfan]

The stuff I use is called ferrule cement, used to glue the feathers on an arrow too. Never had a problem with it coming loose. I get it from voodoo

This is what I use also, it's called Ferr-L-Tite. It has a little higher melting point and some have said it's melting point is too high but it has never damaged any of my tips and I do all my builds with it. It can be found in any Archery shop, online and my local fishing tackle store also sells it. Florida gets hot too, and I've never had a tip come lose with this stuff.

https://shop.bohning.com/ferr-l-tite/

[Midway Tommy]

I don't see a problem with ferrule/tip-top glue. It gets pretty dang hot in NE and I've never had one soften and come loose. I agree with Lee, I would never use epoxy on a tip-top. I sure don't want that joint to be rigid, it needs to have a little bit of give in my opinion, but then I'm not playing in salt water.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I've seen them spin on me when only melted on. I decided to stop using hot glue when one flew on a cast when the leader knot got stuck.

Probably evidence i did it wrong but it's not a risk worth taking IMO. The only negative to using 5min is I gotta wait a lot longer than 5 min before I feel it's cured enough for the next stage of building the rod.

[steelfish]

what a surprise, I never expected this kind of help from the ohana (yep, I've been sarcastic)




thanks guys, seems that I have more options to try out, I will order some of those hotmelt stick for the arrows and will look some of the options what my compadre Lee linked too, to be honest the few saltwaters rods that have been brought to me with the tiptop moved to the side or pointing to the bottom could be a combination of the rod on direct sun on the panga rod holder with on a hot summer heat and a bad fish fighting work of the person, normally on heavy duty saltwater rods I try to put as much hotmelt glue inside of the tip and make few wraps with the thread in an intend to "lock" or extra secure the tip, I think on trolling rods I will use a 5-min epoxy with low adhesion force.

[oc1]

5-minute epoxy is crap and it breaks down over time or with UV exposure.  The lighter trick makes it break down right now.  Ideal for rod tips.

[jurelometer]

5-minute epoxy is crap and it breaks down over time or with UV exposure.  The lighter trick makes it break down right now.  Ideal for rod tips.

^^^^ Bingo!  Epoxies are not all the same.  Five minute seems to crumble with heat.  And you just need to break the bond with the metal sleeve.  The blank does not have to get hot.  And you can always do an epoxy  test run on a blank scrap.  Most of us have a broken off tip section or two lying around . Probably a good idea, as epoxy brands may vary.  I use mostly Devcon five minute.

The problem with hot glue sticks (including ferrule cements) is that being a thermoplastic, the hardness varies by temperature to a much greater degree than a thermoset like epoxy. I wonder if ferrule cement failure may also be a function of fit. If the fit is too tight, there are probably some areas without any cement.


To be fair, I used a fairly old version of ferrule cement (Gudebrod).  The newer stuff may work better, but could also bring new risks.  Ferr-L-Tite has a melting point of 350F, so folks doing this at home are probably heating over 400, and the metal sleeve has to be over 350 long enough to position the tiptop.  So a lot more heat is being applied longer to both install and remove high temp ferrule cement compared to a short quick blast on removal only that does not heat the blank with five minute epoxy.

I don't think that flexibility of the adhesive is much of a concern, as the glued area is encased in a metal sleeve anyways.

If you are using a spinning rod, the tiptop will stay aligned by virtue of already being under the blank.  If you are using lighter line, you will also not be generating as much torque to twist the guide.   Car trunks don't count.  You have to be actively yanking on a big fish or a snag with conventional gear in hot weather.

There is usually more than one right way to do stuff like this, so I am not trying to disparage what works for other members.  But sometimes the right way in one set of circumstances may not be the best way in another.

-J

[steelfish]

....And you can always do an epoxy  test run on a blank scrap.  Most of us have a broken off tip section or two lying around ....

I can do that.

I have more than one piece of blank or freshwater blanks that I can use to test gluing tiptops with 5-min epoxy and try to take them out without damaging the blank, even I can do test on graphite blank and a test on a all glass blank

I have seen some of the 5-min epoxies advertise their strength in PSI, so, it might good idea to get one with the lowest PSI count so, the metal tiptop wont be forever welded to the blank.
when Im installing foam or hypalon grips I choose the epoxy with the highest psi count.

[Cor]

I use hotmelt for reel seats as well and have never had one come loose.    Tips do come off but are easy enough to get back in to place.
It seldom get hotter then 95 degrees here.