looking for alternatives for Hotmelt stick glue for tiptop repairs

Started by steelfish, November 18, 2022, 02:26:23 AM

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oc1

The ferrule cement I bought from a rod building supplier a few years ago looks and behaves just like a high temp hot glue stick.  The old type of brown ferrule cement is a different.  I think mine is Weber brand.  If a ferule gives way for no apparent reason (not heat) the brown cement will chip off in flakes.  Hot glue sticks don't do that.

JasonGotaProblem

I'll be honest I just cut them off. I cut as close as humanly possible to the base of the metal with dog claw clippers which are perfect for the task. The rod got a half inch shorter. No big deal. But that's just me.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

Midway Tommy

Well, as Dave suggested, there's more than one way to skin a cat.  :D  To each his own, I guess.
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

philaroman

never wanted/needed to skin a cat
in the unlikely event I ever do, one method will suffice  ::)
tip-tops are a different story
 
all the low-temp hot melt seems to be <200*F release point?
hot sun + black tip-top on black rod + friction heat...  too close for comfort

all the high-temp hot melt seems to be >400*F release point?
too close for comfort, as far as blank damage

is boiling water unsafe for blanks?
isn't there a hot-melt w/ release point around 300*F? 
...or whatever Goldie Locks temp zone, if 300 is too hot

jurelometer

Quote from: philaroman on November 19, 2022, 10:40:07 PMnever wanted/needed to skin a cat
in the unlikely event I ever do, one method will suffice  ::)
tip-tops are a different story
 
all the low-temp hot melt seems to be <200*F release point?
hot sun + black tip-top on black rod + friction heat...  too close for comfort

all the high-temp hot melt seems to be >400*F release point?
too close for comfort, as far as blank damage

is boiling water unsafe for blanks?
isn't there a hot-melt w/ release point around 300*F? 
...or whatever Goldie Locks temp zone, if 300 is too hot

The perfect temp resistant hot melt glue would stay rock solid until it reached its melting point. But in the real wold, the stuff gets progressively softer, losing shear strength and adhesion as temperature increases. "Release" is a function of temp plus torque and coverage area. We can't peg it to a specific temperature.  Which is probably why the stuff works fine for some of us and has the occasional problem for others.

Choosing a 350F melt product is more likely to give you better adhesion and shear strength than a 250F melt product when the rod is being used in 100F temperatures.

As to what temperature is safe for blank integrity? This is a function of the resin the prepreg that the rod company selected and how long you keep it hot.

The rod companies are not going to shell out extra bucks for high temp (when cured) resin, so  I would argue that we are probably in the safe zone if we just heat it for just a couple of seconds, and don't go crazy past the oven temp that is was cured at - which I would guess to be anywhere between 200F and 300F by looking at the prepreg products out there.

And even if you weaken the very tip, it may not be so much of a risk. The blank section that got heated is sleeved by the tip top, plus  there is not much blank flex load in the immediate vicinity- the load increases as you get closer to the apex of whatever bend you have in the rod- and the tip top is always going to be at the far end.  The very tip area never takes much bending load.  Small to medium sized carbon fiber blanks are already surprisingly weak at the tip if you bend them with the apex right up near the tip. 

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 19, 2022, 05:26:10 AMI'll be honest I just cut them off. I cut as close as humanly possible to the base of the metal with dog claw clippers which are perfect for the task. The rod got a half inch shorter. No big deal. But that's just me.

I would be worried about crushing the blank when shearing it. That would be bad.  Very easy to do it the "righter" way and just remove the old tiptop. Takes a matter of seconds. 
 
-J

steelfish

Quote from: Cor on November 19, 2022, 03:45:40 AMI use hotmelt for reel seats as well and have never had one come loose.    Tips do come off but are easy enough to get back in to place.
It seldom get hotter then 95 degrees here.

here we have an average of 30-40 days on the 105-120*F, but few hours on direct sun the temp on the metal tip will be much higher than that


Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 19, 2022, 05:26:10 AMI'll be honest I just cut them off. I cut as close as humanly possible to the base of the metal with dog claw clippers which are perfect for the task. The rod got a half inch shorter. No big deal. But that's just me.

well, not my cup of tea to cup the tip specially on friend's rods and even less on customer rods, although I have to do it many times on old rods but before I cut it I let my friend or customer now about it and tell them its the last resort.

there are some rotary tool pretty cheap on Harbor freight stores or from Fleabay, aliexpress,etc I mean 10-15 dlls the tool and way better than dog claw clippers or you can just get a small dremel rotary tool, there are some economic ones as low as $40 something.
The Baja Guy

Midway Tommy

Quote from: philaroman on November 19, 2022, 10:40:07 PMnever wanted/needed to skin a cat
in the unlikely event I ever do, one method will suffice  ::)
tip-tops are a different story
 

Skinned many a cat in my day, civet cats & bob cats, and there's more than one way to do it, but most fur buyers have a preferred method.  ;D
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

Cor

Quote from: steelfish on November 20, 2022, 02:40:23 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 19, 2022, 05:26:10 AMI'll be honest I just cut them off. I cut as close as humanly possible to the base of the metal with dog claw clippers which are perfect for the task. The rod got a half inch shorter. No big deal. But that's just me.

well, not my cup of tea to cup the tip specially on friend's rods and even less on customer rods, although I have to do it many times on old rods but before I cut it I let my friend or customer now about it and tell them its the last resort.


You make an important point, I build and repair stuff for myself and friends and have never charged anybody for anything.   I do that because I enjoy it and if I were to charge I would no longer be able to do experimental stuff and would need to work very neatly with focus on appearances rather then functionality.    I would also use epoxy to fix tips and reel seats because it is more durable.

I like the challenge of repairing a broken rod to be a functional tool again.  I have done many for friends, but absolutely at their risk.    I now have a 90 % success rate, but would never have attempted that if I charged, the risk would be to great and it takes way too much time to do.
Cornelis

Breadfan

Maybe this would be more suitable to everyone. Not too hot, not too cold. I've been meaning to try this as soon as my other stuff runs out. It is specifically for carbon arrows which makes it suitable for rods. At 280 degree melting point, it may be the one!

https://shop.bohning.com/ferr-l-tite-cool-flex/

Cuttyhunker

Doomed from childhood