Tekota 600HGA and TR200-G - Leadcore Capacities?

[EL JEFE]

Hello all--

I currently use two TR200-G reels to troll for stripers on some local lakes in SoCal. I use lead core to troll my own hand tied flies. 

I use 15# Suffix Performance Lead Core on these reels.  The reels have approx. 30 yds of 30# braid backing, full 10 colors (100 yds) of 15# of lead core, and 10' of 15# floro leader.  It all fits on the spool.

I was looking to upgrade these reels to the latest version of Tekota 600HGA.

However, I am not able to find the spool diameters to determine if the same quantities of line will fit on this reel.

Based on what I read on Shimano's website, under specs, I believe the TR200-G spool will hold more than the Tekota 600HGA

Ex.  The Reels hold braid as follows:

TR:      65/450
Tekota:  65/330

This tells me that the Tekota 600HGA spool holds less the than the TG.

Is my logic correct?

Thanks!

[alantani]

you know, i never did understand the logic behind lead core and wire.  i would have figured that a thin braid would work better.

[Brewcrafter]

Boss - I have dabbled in that arena pretty extensively.  Here is my experience FWIW:
Lead core trolling also has another nomenclature that I hear used down here in SoCal and The River - Flycoring.  Using light streamers like Clouser flies trolled for stripers.  The line is pretty much what does the work of getting those light lures down there.  Why not just go with a downrigger?  Well, the man made impoundments here in SoCal, as well as the Colorado River can have some pretty abrupt depth changes from long points of land or canyons jutting out into the water.  If my lure is sitting at 40' and my sonar is telling me it is getting shallow QUICK (not unusual) I can turn the boat and since the lure is probably 8 colors (80') behind the boat I can skim along the side of that point (true, when I make the turn the inside lure does slow down slightly and increase in depth while the outside lure speeds up and gets shallower - but it's an art form - not an exact science).  When my buddy with the downrigger setup sees the bottom coming up fast under the boat usually the cannonball is already collecting brush...
El Jefe - I cannot comment on your specific reels, my three setups are a couple of Cabela's Depthmaster 30's and a Penn 320GTI, all linecounters (yeah, I like to complicate my life like that) and I run a line setup similar to yours but with heavier 37# leadcore (for times when I get careless and drag across those rocky points).  If it would help you I will send you the advertised specs on line capacity for those reels, and also tell you what they hold in lead core, but again, since your reel selection is different you will need to do some extrapolation.  I would be happy to help.
To answer your question, the key factor is line diameter.  The only information I found on lead core line diameters is here https://www.rapala.com/sufix/lead-core/performance-lead-core/performance-lead-core/Performance+Lead+Core.html
interesting to note - different # test of leadcore lines in many cases use the same core, just a different weave over the core to gain the additional line test strength (we are quickly heading down a rabbit hole here  but ultimately to answer your question, look at the line capacity ratings of the reel you have, and for any reel you are considering look at the line capacity of a line test that has a similar diameter or a diameter where you can make the calculations.  Again, let me know if I can help!  - john

[EL JEFE]

you know, i never did understand the logic behind lead core and wire.  i would have figured that a thin braid would work better.

Brewcrafter's explanation is spot on.  Flycoring is how I am using my reels loaded with lead core. 

[EL JEFE]

Boss - I have dabbled in that arena pretty extensively.  Here is my experience FWIW:
Lead core trolling also has another nomenclature that I hear used down here in SoCal and The River - Flycoring.  Using light streamers like Clouser flies trolled for stripers.  The line is pretty much what does the work of getting those light lures down there.  Why not just go with a downrigger?  Well, the man made impoundments here in SoCal, as well as the Colorado River can have some pretty abrupt depth changes from long points of land or canyons jutting out into the water.  If my lure is sitting at 40' and my sonar is telling me it is getting shallow QUICK (not unusual) I can turn the boat and since the lure is probably 8 colors (80') behind the boat I can skim along the side of that point (true, when I make the turn the inside lure does slow down slightly and increase in depth while the outside lure speeds up and gets shallower - but it's an art form - not an exact science).  When my buddy with the downrigger setup sees the bottom coming up fast under the boat usually the cannonball is already collecting brush...
El Jefe - I cannot comment on your specific reels, my three setups are a couple of Cabela's Depthmaster 30's and a Penn 320GTI, all linecounters (yeah, I like to complicate my life like that) and I run a line setup similar to yours but with heavier 37# leadcore (for times when I get careless and drag across those rocky points).  If it would help you I will send you the advertised specs on line capacity for those reels, and also tell you what they hold in lead core, but again, since your reel selection is different you will need to do some extrapolation.  I would be happy to help.
To answer your question, the key factor is line diameter.  The only information I found on lead core line diameters is here https://www.rapala.com/sufix/lead-core/performance-lead-core/performance-lead-core/Performance+Lead+Core.html
interesting to note - different # test of leadcore lines in many cases use the same core, just a different weave over the core to gain the additional line test strength (we are quickly heading down a rabbit hole here  but ultimately to answer your question, look at the line capacity ratings of the reel you have, and for any reel you are considering look at the line capacity of a line test that has a similar diameter or a diameter where you can make the calculations.  Again, let me know if I can help!  - john

Thanks for the assistance and great explanation on Flycoring and why it is preferred for trolling flies! 

I did look at both reel specs on Shimano's website. That it is how I determined that the TR would hold more Suffix 15# lead core.  Since there is no longer a 700 size Tekota, I would have to jump up to an 800.  That is larger than I need, plus it is over double the weight.

Without ever seeing a Tekota 600 in person, I thought a 600 size would hold more capacity than the smallish TR200.

18# Leadcore is the most commonly used led core in SoCal for Flycoring.  I got a deal on several spools of the 15# so that is what I have been using.  I will move up to the #832 18# Suffix Advance Lead Core when I consume the 5-6 15# spools I have.

The TR is great reel, lighter weight, and overall size is good for how I am using it.  I was just looking to upgrade to a quality alum framed reel with the same line capacity specs without being too much heavier.

Is there a different brand/model/size I should also be considering?

[Lunker Larry]

I would not recommend the HG for leadcore.I'm not a fan of this reel.Feels cheap, lots of plastic and no comparison to the older model. A common issue I've seen is the post holding the idler gear on the side plate breaks off. The side plate is just plastic I believe and my opinion is the post is too long and doesn't hold up to the stress put on it.
Leadcore and wire is used by a lot of great lakes fishers for salmon. Check out Spoonpullers website. You can get some good info on what reels they use.
Good luck

[boon]

Setting aside the suitability of the reel, the capacity of the TR200G is near identical to the Tekota 600. The braid capacities on Shimano's website for the TR-200G seem wrong:

TR-200G:
40/555, 50/550, 65/450
Tekota 600HGA:
40/540, 50/460, 65/330

Why would the TR-200G only fit 5 yards less 50# than 40#? Why would two reels that are within about 3% capacity for 40# braid have a 50% variation in capacity of 65# braid?
As a side note, anyone that spools either of these reels with 65# braid is a silly sausage who should be using a different reel.

More sensible is the mono capacity:
TR-200G:
14/480, 17/400, 20/300
600 HGA:
16/390, 20/300, 25/240

 

[handi2]

The Tekota finish is going to ruin in no time. Stick with the TR200.

Keith

[EL JEFE]

Setting aside the suitability of the reel, the capacity of the TR200G is near identical to the Tekota 600. The braid capacities on Shimano's website for the TR-200G seem wrong:

TR-200G:
40/555, 50/550, 65/450
Tekota 600HGA:
40/540, 50/460, 65/330

Why would the TR-200G only fit 5 yards less 50# than 40#? Why would two reels that are within about 3% capacity for 40# braid have a 50% variation in capacity of 65# braid?
As a side note, anyone that spools either of these reels with 65# braid is a silly sausage who should be using a different reel.

More sensible is the mono capacity:
TR-200G:
14/480, 17/400, 20/300
600 HGA:
16/390, 20/300, 25/240

 

I agree; the specs do not make sense. Perhaps a call to Shimano to clarify is in order. 
As far as quality...are there other level wind reels with the capacity/weight of TR200G that are alum framed and of higher quality? 

[EL JEFE]

I would not recommend the HG for leadcore.I'm not a fan of this reel.Feels cheap, lots of plastic and no comparison to the older model. A common issue I've seen is the post holding the idler gear on the side plate breaks off. The side plate is just plastic I believe and my opinion is the post is too long and doesn't hold up to the stress put on it.
Leadcore and wire is used by a lot of great lakes fishers for salmon. Check out Spoonpullers website. You can get some good info on what reels they use.
Good luck

Thanks Larry....I'll check out the spoonpullers website.

[boon]

As far as quality...are there other level wind reels with the capacity/weight of TR200G that are alum framed and of higher quality? 

Penn Fathom II Level Wind is the only reel I can think of that fulfils the alum frame part.
Okuma Solterra SLX would be a worthwhile consideration; graphite frame but very strongly built.

[EL JEFE]

I was looking at the Shimano Charter Special.  It appears to be an upgraded TR200G.  It has level wind, lever drag, and 4+1 bearings.  A little slower retrieve at 4.2:1.  Same line specs.

I have never owned a lever drag reel so I'm not familiar with how it would handle/work with the type of fishing I do (trolling leadcore).

[Brewcrafter]

I have never owned a lever drag reel so I'm not familiar with how it would handle/work with the type of fishing I do (trolling leadcore).
[/quote]

EL JEFE - Shouldn't pose an issue, out on the salt you would be hard pressed to find a troller that is not a lever drag.  More a question of personal preference and getting used to "a new thing".  I am probably oversimplifying it, but since you say you are not familiar with a lever drag you basically dial in or set your initial drag range/freespool with the knob, and then when fishing move the lever through its arc of rotation from freespool up to whatever max drag is.  And most quality lever drags have a series of detents or stops along the lever that are either numbered (1,2,3, 4 etc) or named ("Bait" "Strike" "Full") to allow you to consistently hit the same drag in the same place in the arc.  The only downsides I see initially are two:
1 - In order to freespool, you basically pull the lever to release the drag, then push it back to it's original position (hopefully) to have the same drag setting (hence why the detents are pretty important to get back to the same setting).  I know if I'm on a troll and metering something a little lower than what my lures are running at (for folks that don't do this, remember the lures are not only down, but also can be pretty far back behind the boat) I can reach over, hit the freespool lever on my star drag, watch the linecounter or count the colors, and then immediately click it back in gear and I am back in business.  Particularly nice if a fish hits it while you are letting out line (ask me how I know).  And since I usually run 3 rods (one guy tending the rods and one running the boat), it can be done pretty quickly by one person.  Not a big deal, but again for someone not familiar with a lever drag, it might be a little less intuitive initially.
2 - And this one I see as a bigger potential learning curve/adaptation issue.  There are countless threads on this Forum involving the Dark Voodoo Magic of lever drag cam curves.  Put in the simplest of terms, moving the lever drag lever through its arc may not (depending on reel and manufacturer) result in a smooth, even progression in the increase of drag.  Moving 1/2 way though the usable range may only get you 25% of the usable drag, whereas the last 1/2 of the arc may quickly ramp you up through the remaining 75% of your available drag.  Or it could be the opposite - where a small initial movement of the drag lever can cause a quick ramp up in drag values, then they "even up" and do not increase as steeply later in the curve.  Again, it all depends on the reel model, manufacturer, etc.  The Boss is an absolute Wizard at this kind of stuff.
As far as a reel recommendation, I kind of hit it in my first post.  For me I use metered leadcore AND a linecounter feature.  You could easily argue that it is redundant, overkill, and a potential failure point and you would be correct.  But that's the way I learned it so that's the way I do it    All of my stuff is from around 2005-7ish.  My Penn 320 2GTLC is graphite, but no arguing with the solid base reel.  But because I run 3 rods I needed to expand the arsenal quickly and cheaply, so I scored a couple of Cabela's Depthmaster reels (Cabela's was still independent back then).  One of the Depthmasters and the the Penn 320 both hold about 100 yards of the heavier 36# braid plus flouro leader, and the second Depthmaster holds a full 200 yards that I run from whichever side of the boat is facing either the center of the lake or if at the River the side that is closest to the channel.  Both of them have metal frames, but again they are also no longer made (the current Bass Pro/Cabela's Depthmaster appears to be Graphite) and also it can be dicey purchasing a "trade" type reel - I bought these because they were inexpensive and allowed me to quickly fully outfit my boat, and I knew 3 other guys using them that were happy with the quality.  Breakage or maintenance?  Always a pain point with a trade reel, fortunately the one time I had a levelwind issue it appears that my versions have a lot of Okuma lineage in them, but who knows with any given reel made today.  Sticking with any one of the name brands is the smart call and avoids that issue.  Then again you can always go Vintage!  Nothing wrong with that, if I see you Lead Coring with Pro Gear on Lake Perris the beers at the marina are on me.  Now that I think about it, I was gifted a Penn Leveline by one of the Ohana that I haven't messed with yet, and I do usually try to go for spring stripers at the River, THAT might be my next bench project! - john

[Hardy Boy]

It would work just fine. You will like it if you try it.


Cheers:

Todd

[EL JEFE]

Bringing this back up for some advice....

Looking at the specs for a size 20 Penn Fathom II levelwind and Squall II levelwind. 

Fathom is metal body and Squall is graphite.  It appears they have a little more capacity over the TRG200N.  Since I will eventually be going with 18# Suffix 832 leadcore, I thought a slightly larger reel would be in order.  Again, level wind is needed.  Fathom It is approx. 8 ounces heavier and Squall 6oz... but I know there are trade offs. 

Trying to accomplish something of better quality that the TRN200G (which is hard to do because it has been a great reel).  But it only has one bearing and is maxed out with 15# leacore, some braid backing, and a top shot of 15# floro.

In flycoring the rod/reel is always in hand while fishing as you are striping line constantly until there is a hookup.  With that said, a balance between rugged/dependable quality, line capacity, and weight are most important.  Super duty drag is not required since these freshwater fish are typically under 20# and long battles are not common.

What says the group on these two reels for my intended use?
BTW...the new Tekota I started looking at is too close on the specs to the TRN200G so it may not be suitable.
Thanks