Free Spool worse after Service???

[ebnash]

So I have got my bearing packers, and all my tools together and I am going to tackle a couple of my Avets since they have never been touched.  Both reels, MXL and JX are about 4 years old and have never been touched.  Both fished on a 5 Day LR trip and a couple times for Rock Cod so they don't have much use.

For the spool components, I removed the shields form both spool bearings and cleaned them out with Carb Cleaner and about 20 psi compressed air.  They turned very smooth with no pitting or damage noticed.  As I have not received my TSI301 yet, I decided to use Reel X to lube the open bearings, shaft, sleeve, washers, and spring.

Prior to service both reels had about 30 seconds of free spool.  After complete tear down and service of both reels cleaning, repacking bearings, and coating all surfaces with proper grease and Reel X on all spool components, I am seeing 12-15 seconds of Free Spool.

I know I will get better performance with the 301, but I didn't think it would get worse with service and Reel X...

[Jimmer]

Be sure not to spin the bearings with compressed air, that's rough on them.

[Nessie Hunter]

Sounds like you did everything right...

Make sure you didnt get any Grease on the edges of spool and/or frame & shaft. 
Wipe it down to almost dry (very light coat is all)   
Any contact with grease will slow the freespool to a crawl....

The difference with TSI 301/321 will hardy be noticeable, if at all..   
So thats not the issue..

[Bryan Young]

I agree with Nessie.  Probably grease between the spool and frame.

When the spool spins, is it noisy?  If so, you need new bearings but it would spin just as well but be very noisy.

[alantani]

i'm home today until 4pm, then home all day tuesday.  swing by the house and we'll take a look.  alan

[ebnash]

I am assuming all my reels will need new spool bearings.  I just serviced another reel, an HX 5/2 that had 41 seconds of freespool and 32 seconds after service.  The HX spool bearings were silent prior to service.  Now they make noise.  Must be doing something wrong here.

Alan,
I will try to come by and see you Tuesday if your available during the day.

Thanks,
Erik

[ebnash]

Damn, I must be doing something wrong...  I serviced 5 reels in the last 24 hours and all of them had worse free spool performance after service.  Even 2 brand new reels got worse after service.  Maybe they all just have crap bearings to begin with, but they were silent with grease and noisy as hell after I un-shielded, cleaned, and reel x lubed them.

I guess I need to buy a bunch of bearings from Alan.

[Bryan Young]

Aloha Erik,

Sounds strange.  Open bearing will be noiser.  It's just a matter of fact.  So let's recap.

Open bearings and cleaned out.  I normally will spray WD40 into the open bearings and spin them.  Spray on more WD40 and spin the some more and faster.  If there's any crud that got moved around, this will free them up.  Then, I flip the bearing and do the same a third time.  By now, if the bearings are good, they will spin freely.  I then use carb cleaner and spray the bearings out to rid of WD40.  I spray forced air perpendicular to the bearing to dry out the bearing.  Then I give it a little ( mean little) puff of air to set the bearing spinning (if you do it with a bad bearing, you will know how much air to get the bearing to spin).  If it doen't spin freely for a count of 5, I repeat the process.

Now, for the pressure plate bearing.  If the bearing is open, then I do the same.  If it's sealed, then I pack with grease, and wipe all excess grease off the outer surfaces of the bearing.

Once that is done, assuming that the reel is ready to have to spool installed, sometime you have to crank down on the preset know to get the spool in position just right before the pressure plate contacts the drag surface.  Then back it off while spinning.  Then, from that point, sent the drags gradually increasing the preset (while in free spool) then test the drag until it's as the level you want.


Hmm, try that first and see what happens...or wait until Tuesday.

[ebnash]

Bryan. thanks for the detailed information.  Since I have to wait till Tuesday to get some bearings anyways, I am going to tear down one of the new reels and spend a little more time cleaning out the 2 spool bearings.  I didn't really do anything else other than a few shots of carb cleaner and some regulated 20 psi air before lubing them and calling it good.

I will try your WD40 method and spend a little more time on them.

[Bryan Young]

To give you an idea, I go through about 1 can of carb cleaner lasts me about 6 reels (or less), assuming that there are 3 bearings per reel.  Probably waisting, but I want to make sure that they are clean.  The crappy part is that I often find bad bearings after it's cleaned, the I gotta do the process over again with new bearings.  Sometimes, the bearings seem fine when they are floating in grease.  You sometimes can feel it, but often, I cannot.  Then, when it's cleaned, spin with air, I can hear it and then I know it's bad.  I'm not as good as some people (Alan) where they can take a bearing, turn it in their hand, and say, get a new bearing or make a decision to clean it.

[Nuvole]

All my heavy duty reel's free spool are shorter after I packed all bearings with tacky marine grease.
When they run too fast, I know that the grease is wearing out and its time to service them again.
If you plan to do long distance or light lure casting, then you should use oil on those bearing instead of grease.

[Keta]

Sometimes the small shim washers on either side of the spring that holds the plate off of the spool don't get put back and if you have a tight reel the plate contacts the drag material.  I've also had grease or crud behind the plate bearing and pinion bearings cause a loss of freespool.

Bryan, with bearings when in doubt change them out.  A little bit of rust will ruin a bearing but they will often feel OK after a cleaning.  I keep some of these marginaly OK bearings in my travel reel repair box for emergency field repairs.

[ebnash]

Thanks Bryan...

I grabbed my MXL this morning and opened it up again.  Did a more thorough cleaning of the spool bearings.  I also lightened the oiling on all of the shaft components and made sure grease in the area was wiped to a minimum application and my freespool went from 15 -45 seconds.  I will go through my other reels as well but I am sure at least a few of them have marginal spool bearings.

I also think I was a little over aggresive in grease application in all the other areas of the reel so I am going to wipe excess.  It seems that the evinrude marine grease is very thick and tacky.  I may try thinning it with the Reel X in the future as all of the drive train in the reel seems to have more resistance after servicing.

[Bryan Young]

Sometimes the small shim washers on either side of the spring that holds the plate off of the spool don't get put back and if you have a tight reel the plate contacts the drag material.  I've also had grease or crud behind the plate bearing and pinion bearings cause a loss of freespool.

Bryan, with bearings when in doubt change them out.  A little bit of rust will ruin a bearing but they will often feel OK after a cleaning.  I keep some of these marginaly OK bearings in my travel reel repair box for emergency field repairs.

I agree with Lee.  There should be 2 small thrust washers (one either side of the drag plate spring) that is often left out and/or lost.

Lee, I do change questionable bearing out.  I just cannot always feel it like Alan, esp. on those tiny spool bearings.  I discover them as being damaged after cleaning them and hearing how they spin.  I guess my ears are more sensative than my fingers.

Thanks Bryan...

I grabbed my MXL this morning and opened it up again.  Did a more thorough cleaning of the spool bearings.  I also lightened the oiling on all of the shaft components and made sure grease in the area was wiped to a minimum application and my freespool went from 15 -45 seconds.  I will go through my other reels as well but I am sure at least a few of them have marginal spool bearings.

I also think I was a little over aggresive in grease application in all the other areas of the reel so I am going to wipe excess.  It seems that the evinrude marine grease is very thick and tacky.  I may try thinning it with the Reel X in the future as all of the drive train in the reel seems to have more resistance after servicing.

On the coating of grease, I do the karate kid technique except with grease...grease on, wipe off.  It will leave a micro-thin film.  You can tell if you touch it and it leaves a slight fingerprint of grease.  That's a good amount.  It will protect the surface and does not give water, salt, and other contaminiants to collect on the excess grease.

I too have and still use Evinrude Triple Guard Grease.  I especially like it for the areas where I want to apply a thin layer of grease.  Not good for bearings because it is too thick and tacky.  I thin it out with about 1 ounce of corrosionX per 1 pound Triple Guard with good results.  The grease then becomes expensive, so I've conceeded to Alan's Yamaha Grease being that Central Valley Marine is about 2 miles from my house.

[ebnash]

I too have and still use Evinrude Triple Guard Grease.  I especially like it for the areas where I want to apply a thin layer of grease.  Not good for bearings because it is too thick and tacky.  I thin it out with about 1 ounce of corrosionX per 1 pound Triple Guard with good results.  The grease then becomes expensive, so I've conceeded to Alan's Yamaha Grease being that Central Valley Marine is about 2 miles from my house.

Kind of a bummer since I just packed all the non spool bearings for 6 reels with straight Evinrude grease.  Wasn't really a cost measure, just more covenient that it came in the mini cartridges.  I am not about to clean out a mini cartridge and hand pack it with Yamaha grease just to have it for the bearing packers.  While the bearing packers are a really nice thing to have, I think I might have been better off hand packing bearings since my gear only gets used once a year or so...

Fortunately, none of this was a really big investment.  I looked at all of this as a learning exercise.  I know what to do beter next time.