Stainless Steel vs Ceramic Bearings

[J.AkuHed]

What is the difference between the ceramic and the stain less steel and what do you recomend?

[alantani]

only the balls are different.  otherwise, the spin (abec) tolerances are the same and the corrosion risk is the same.  the cages, inside races and outside races are all stainless steel.  oh, almost forgot.  the cost is different as well. 

[franky]

What is the difference between the ceramic and the stain less steel and what do you recomend?

Great topic!  I'd like to add a little of my .02 on some of the responses that I've gotten from various people.  Alan; please...steer me in the correct direction if I am way off. 

I spoke to a rep at Boca Bearings and he told me what Alan said...when you are referring to bearings, the only thing to keep in mind is the ABEC rating.  Regardless of material, there are similiar abec ratings for both SS and ceramic bearings.  Hence, ss abec 5 is JUST AS GOOD as ceramic abec 5.  However, for example purposes, the SS abec 7 is higher than ceramic abec 5.  Higher meaning better tolorance.

Now, for casting purposes, abec 5 is absolutely sufficient.  Some will argue that abec 7 bearings are "too much" and actually counter productive for casting purposes. 

When speaking of tolerance in bearings, high rated bearings are actually good for gradual, steady, and constant speed applications (ie: a machine that runs on bearings at high speed or cars, etc.)

For fishing reel casting, I was told that you have, for example, a 3 second window to get the speed of your spool up at its highest RPM's and everything else is just controlling the spool to prevent birdnesting.  Having too much tolorance may actually hinder this.  Therefore, abec 5 rating is the highest recommended by the Boca Bearing guy that I spoke to.

Pros & Cons...

I was told that the ceramic balls in the bearings are fired up to an extreme density so that its durability is that of steel...

Advantage, is ceramic is lighter than SS and will supposedly climb and achieve a higher RPM at the initial cast (3 second window).  I am not to sure on this one because i believe that is it the spool that spins (which is why newell graphite spools are unbeatable in castability when compared to aluminum despite the burnt thumb it will cause.  ) Alan, can you chime in on this one...true/false.

Overall, I've heard that its not worth the money; especially anything above the abec 5 rating. 

Some swear that ceramics are smoother, lighter, and non corrosive to salt water.  To me, I take care of my things and don't have to worry about corrosion...thanks to Alan Tani's reel tutorials...

Bottom line for some fisherman is like the old saying...its not the arrow...its the indian!   You could have an excellent ceramic bearing and all the fancy gizmos, but if you don't have proper casting technique, you will not outcast someone else using ss bearings and is an excellent caster.

If anyone else can share some of their own personal experiences good/bad with ceramic bearings vs. ss bearings....please post.  I am still in the fact finding phase and would like to know real field experiences in addtion to just the "sales rep" guys outlook.  Heck, you know how sales are...many of them are just trying to sell you a part. 

Aloha...

[BigT]

Couldn't agree more with the 'indian, not the arrow' analogy... spot on Akuhed

I've got no idea of their performance in larger reels but I've been experimenting with different bearings in some small baitcasters to try to get some objective comparisons. The ceramic hybrids in the comparison below are ABEC#5 spec. I've since tried some ABEC#5 stainless bearings and the results fell in between the original and hybrid results.

The information I've learned while doing this is that the performance of the ceramic hybrids is related not just to their ABEC precision but also to the lighter weight of the balls which improves acceleration and speed retention of the bearing. They are, however, also more prone to performance drop offs from fouling or over-lubrication, than stainless bearings. And from experience, can be a little noisier.

Anyway... here's my results from an earlier post....

I've been playing with ceramic hybrid bearings and I just got hold of some XTreme Reel+. I wanted to see what made the biggest difference to bearing performance in a small baitcaster so I used my Pflueger Trion LP  as a 'test bed'.

A bit of playing around with lubricants and bearing combinations and here's some more results measured in 'freespool time'...

original stainless bearings lubed with TG's Rocket Fuel - 20 seconds
original stainless bearings lubed with ReelX - 22 seconds
original stainless bearings lubed with Xtreme Reel+ - 30 seconds
ceramic hybrid bearings (Boca Ceramic Lightning) out of the box - 35 seconds
ceramic hybrid bearings (Boca Ceramic Lightning) lubed with ReelX - 35 seconds
ceramic hybrid bearings (Boca Ceramic Lightning) lubed with Xtreme Reel+ - 40 seconds

The verdict. Xtreme Reel+ is great but in a small baitcaster that has a relatively light spool like this, ceramic bearings seem to make a much bigger difference. I'll be using a combination of ceramics and Xtreme Reel+ but if you only were going to do one thing to improve a small baitcaster, I'd swap the bearings.


Cheers, BigT

[alantani]

so i've been playing around with the xtreme reel + for the last year.  what i've found is that the bearings have to be super clean for it to work for any length of time. if the bearings are gunked up, they will spin well for a few minutes to a few hours at most.  if they are super clean, they will spin well for a few weeks to a few months, then eventually slow down to the point where they spin as well as the bearings lubed with corrrosion x.  the nice thing is that, with a quick re-application of xtreme reel +, they are back to spinning great again. 

bottom line, spool bearings need to be maintained.  that means relubing them on a regular basis.  alan

[franky]

They are, however, also more prone to performance drop offs from fouling or over-lubrication, than stainless bearings. And from experience, can be a little noisier.


Cheers, BigT

[/quote]

Hey Big T....awesome field test!!!

Yes, I forgot to mention that the Boca Bearing guy also told me about the lubrication factor with ceramic bearings.  He mentioned that by putting lube, it will actually cut down on a person's casting distance due to having a slight sticky effect on the ceramic balls.  If you can handle the noise factor, then running the ceramic balls dry will produce a farther cast.  In my opinion, I have learned from other distant casters that some of them will actually put in certain kinds of oils intentionally to help control the speed of the spool on a power cast...kind of like adding magnets to a reel to keep the spool in control.

Hi Alan, thanks for your comments and findings regarding "clean" bearings vs. "gouped up" bearings.  I had another question.  When dealing with sealed bearings, I have been dropping my bearings into lighter fluid or acetone in hopes of ridding the internal impurities without having the courage to remove the shield like your other tutorials have noted.  Am i fooling myself into thinking that I got to all of the stuff inside?  Do I physically have to remove the shield to get to the "goup" inside or will the lighter fluid seep in and break it down?  

Also, by not removing the shield, and simply applying a drop of speed-X on it and letting it sit?  Is the speed-X lube actually getting inside to the ball bearings?...or is the shield totally masking the ability for the lube to get inside, thus I am actually running my bearings dry?  Please let me know...

Thanks everyone...Awesome site...so informative...

[borntofish]

That's what I  have always done, ie not removed the shield. As far as I can tell the oil gets in, as when I oil a reel that way it is quieter and casts much better.

[alantani]

you will never know what is inside a bearing until you crack it open.  that is why it is so important to take a look.  with the bearings open, i first hit it with a blast of air sideways to blow out all the old grease and gunk.  then i hit it with corrosion x, then blast it with air to get it to spin.  i know guys say this is bad, but i will continue to hit the bearing with air, making it spin full speed, and listen until the "pitch" of the spinning increases.  that way i know that it is spinning freely.  next, i hit it with a good blast of carb cleaner, both sides.  and then finally, a blast of air again.  now that last blast of air will be against a dry bearing, so i don't go full blast.  i hit it with a puff of gentle air and then look for the bearing to spin for a good 10 seconds. 

ok, now your bearing is clean and ready for a lube! it's alot of work. 

[franky]

you will never know what is inside a bearing until you crack it open.  that is why it is so important to take a look.  with the bearings open, i first hit it with a blast of air sideways to blow out all the old grease and gunk.  then i hit it with corrosion x, then blast it with air to get it to spin.  i know guys say this is bad, but i will continue to hit the bearing with air, making it spin full speed, and listen until the "pitch" of the spinning increases.  that way i know that it is spinning freely.  next, i hit it with a good blast of carb cleaner, both sides.  and then finally, a blast of air again.  now that last blast of air will be against a dry bearing, so i don't go full blast.  i hit it with a puff of gentle air and then look for the bearing to spin for a good 10 seconds. 

ok, now your bearing is clean and ready for a lube! it's alot of work. 

Ho Boy! ....And I thought I was thorough!!!

Gosh, I gotta step up MY game with bearing cleaning!    I'ts probably FILTHY  compared to Alan's bearings.  With all the work involved, I kinda feel like just buying a separate set of bearings, clean it properly, leave in on the side for "stand-by", and just swap them out after a couple of fishing sessions...and keep the rotation going... 

Something to think about...saves time...always ready...super clean bearings...oh yeahhh!!!

[alantani]

well, see, that's what happens at most shops.  they won't take the time to clean bearings because time is money.  worse yet, they may take the time to clean a bearing, only to find that it's fouled up inside and has to be replaced anyway!!!!!!!

welcome to my world.......

[Pro Reel]

Alan and anyone else thats interested. There is an alternative to the full strip down cleaning of bearings. I have proved ot to myself many times over with direct comparison. I know that alan has an ultrasonic cleaner, but decided it's best to just clean most reels by hand. I am at the same conclusion, but still drop a few parts in the sonic tank when there is stuff stuck on that the hand method didn't get clean. The one thing that I allways use my sonic tank for is bearings. I would be lost without it. I have several sizes of small glass jars. The ones that contacts come in are great for small bearings. I have a small ultrasonic tank thats meant for jewelry cleaning. I keep about an inch of weak diluted simple green in it. that keeps it from getting slimy. I place the bearings in the glass jar and add pure acetone in the jar. set the jar in the tank and run it for 30 sec. cycle. the acetone will turn black. dump it out and refill and repeat. the 2nd time the acetone will turn cloudy. the 3rd time the acetone will stay clear. I have tried this with denatured alcahol and lighter fluid. with anything but acetone. it takes a few more times for the fluid to stay clear. If the fluid stays gin clear after a cycle of the sonic cleaner, it is just as clean as it can get. I have found some bearings that are still rough after this. if you place a tapered wood shaft in a dremmel tool and wedge the bearing on the shaft, you can hold the bearing submersed in acetone and spin the dremmel at the low speed for 10 to 20 seconds. this causes acetone to flow through the bearing while its spinning and will break loose stubornly stuck on particles. Sometimes that will make a rough bearing spin 10 to 15 seconds as smmoth as when new. If it doesn't then there is no hope for that bearing.

[CarolinaCustomReels]

I'll chime in on this one, because bearings are a big part of what I do.

Proper cleaning of bearings is vital to top performance in a distance casting reel. I've done the carb cleaner method, and I usually use that when dealing with bearings where max freespool is not priority. For tournament and long-distance fishing reels I use an ultrasonic cleaner with acetone or lighter fluid, much as the post above mine states. Except instead of a glass jar I use a shot glass. Can you tell I'm a student?    I've had bearings come out of the cleaner that will spin upwards of 30 seconds with the flick of a finger.

Another really neat trick is to use toothpaste. I have a modified mandrel for my Dremel tool that holds bearings securely by the inner race. I take standard toothpaste (no mint flavor, no whitening, just store-brand toothpaste) and pack it in the bearing with my finger. I secure the outer race with a piece of tape and run the Dremel on low for 5-10 seconds. then I take the bearing, rinse with warm water to get rid of the toothpaste and begin the cleaning process again. The toothpaste polishes the balls and races of stainless and ceramic bearings, leading to a smoother bearing. This technique can even be used to bring bearings back from the dead. (As long as they are not rusted. Rust is a surefire bearing killer.)

A big thing for me with tournament reels is matching pairs of bearings. I want both bearings in a reel to spin for a similar amount of time. I do spin tests by placing the bearing securely on the tapered end of a chopstick, flicking it and timing how long it takes to stop. I then make a note of the spin time. I pair bearings up with similar spin times for use in reels. Sometimes it takes a batch of 10 bearings to find one or two sets with like spin times. But I'd rather have two bearings in a reel that both spin for 12 seconds instead of one that spins for 20 seconds and one that spins for 9.

Tuning a reel with oil is a true art form that can take years of hands-on experience to understand, much less master. The basic idea is that every braking system in the reel is designed to deal with the sudden burst of spool speed at the beginning of the cast. Oil in bearings provides a brake in this initial stage but thins out very quickly, almost immediately. So you end up with a braking on the spool to control the initial acceleration and then a rapid drop-off of the braking after the spool settles in to a decelerating pattern.

The oil comes off the brakes far faster than any person alive could hope to come off magnets. So if you choose to run without oil, you must increase your initial mag setting. And too much mag in the beginning of the cast will kill your spool speed and cut yards off your cast. This is why I firmly believe in oiled bearings. all my tournament reels get oil in the bearings. I like the Rocket Fuel line of oils personally. The Red bottle sees the most use, I use the Yellow occasionally and I'll put in Tournament by special request only.

Evan
CCReels