avet or accurate for distance casting???????

[johndtuttle]

The answer to your question Avet vs. Accurate the answer is neither. 

I must say I do find it surprising how popular Avets are for casting from pier and shore into the surf in various parts of the country but they are not the ideal tool for the job.

1. A lever drag has the drag mounted on the spool and will never cast as far as a star drag reel in the same hands.

2. Fundamentally, a lever drag reel is not as reliable as a star drag and is not as easy to maintain.

3. Casting pros do find wider spools cast farther (for a variety of reasons requiring we go to the chalkboard and get out the equations) but we all find narrow reels "fish" better for ease of line lay and less wobble when a big 'un is on the line.

4. Consider a graphite frame to ease some maintenance issues if you have modest (ie under 15lbs) drag needs. This should be the case especially considering the reels you were considering. From a pier, maybe not so much of an issue, from the beach I would think about this.

5. Of the two, I would recommend the Avet for cost and simplicity. The Accurate would be recommended if you want more drag before the handle starts binding.


But in the final analysis a modern star drag like a Penn Fathom (metal frame) or Penn Squall (graphite) would be a better choice as seductive as a small lever drag can be   .

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

now it's even more confusing. Avet Accurate Release and now Penn 

[Bryan Young]

Depending on the line size, I do like Penn Squalls (graphite composite frame) for lighter line, and Fathom (aluminum framed) for heavier applications

[Jeri]

Hi All,

John, I would have to disagree with some of your statements, though I would defer that the surf fishing carried out here in southern Africa is somewhat different to the pier and surf scene in USA.

That said, we find without doubt that on a 'pure distance' issue any anglers over here that switch from traditional star drag reels over to modern lever drags, they immediately gain distance, and at times this is in the order of 20-30 metres more.

In a pure distance situation and surf casting, 'free spool' is the ultimate gain item – if the sinker/lure is not having to drag the line off a spool, then it doesn't waste limited energy on that aspect, and the energy is used for flight distance.

Sure there are some reels, like the Penn Fathom that do have pretty good free spool, but nothing compared to the free spool of an Avet or a Release. On these three reels, I can speak from very personal experience – same rod, same line size, same angler – the Release and then the Avet, do out cast the Penn Fathom. Even when all three reels have been subjected to the same level of tuning – high speed oils in the bearings.

On the maintenance issue, the Fathom is infinitely more intricate in all the small components than a Release or even the Avet. I have been using an Avet for 5 years now, and have yet to replace any components, and maintenance is little more than servicing the bearings and greasing the gears. Fathoms that I service for clients seem to rely on more frequent maintenance to keep in top condition. And on this aspect we do have some of the harshest surf fishing conditions for our equipment. The Release hasn't had the time that the Avet has had on the beach, but mainly just suffers a good wash as far as maintenance goes, and less frequent bearing treatment. So, as far as reliability goes, we have found no issues that would set lever drag reels apart from star drag.

The issue of distance casting in a surf situation, when related to spool size and profile is usually one of spool height. Lower profile reels casting further with less problems – and this is borne out by all the lower profile reels being used in the tournament casting scene – they would never consider a narrow and tall spooled reel for their application. And this is where Avet and Release do seem to have got their profiles just right, with various width options within the Avet range to suit the wide variety of casting situations that their reels are used.

The lower profile spools also have an in built braking system due to line level, which assists with less line being delivered to the sinker/lure towards the end of the flight, when the sinker/lure is slowing down – crow's nests at 150 metres. The line being supplied to the sinker/lure being less per revolution as the spool line level goes down. This is a critical aspect at the very end of all long distance casting, and is one of the reasons that low profile reels are the preferred 'weapon of choice'.

In a total free choice of reels for long distance casting, I would first choose the Release, then the Avet, followed by most other reels. Just my opinion.



Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[jaypeegee]

im looking at an avet lx  or an accurate for distance casting for the surf...... or even off a pier....
i heard the free spool on the avet is crazy long....
never had he chance to play with an accurate
any advice fellas?

My advice is that you have a think on what you fish for and what terrain it is over then re write your post with the extra info so the replies move from the generic to specific to your needs.



I have the mxl and lx both mc. The lx is more difficult to cast due to the spool height than other reels. I can get 50 to 80 metres measured depending on bait size and wind impact. The mxl I struggle to exceed 100 metres measured with bait . using daiwa sl20sh I can get up to 120 is with bait . all of these distances are using 10kg line and 4-7 kg sinkers.

Now. The Avets are frikkin nice to fish and are great for rough terrain as they retrieve quickly .line cap on the mxl is great - espe ially on shallow beaches. The slosh is a go to if I need to get straight distance. The lx is now mainly used for live baiting and ledge fishing.   

[LTM]

Ive got to say it: "DAMN, THE THRILLA IN MANILLA". This is what I LOVE about this site; the breath of expetise and differences/variations. As I began to read the post and its threads, I said to myself I hope Jeri from Namibia chimes in with some SPECIFIC METRICS regarding the differences between the two. Then Jeri chimed in and laid down some concepts (no specifics yet) and then JohnTuttle COUNTERED with his statements. Next round Jeri COUNTERS with some objective "specific metrics PLUS first hand experience/experiments. 

THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, I LOVE IT!!!!   I SALUTE YOU GENTLEMEN!!  Now if one more Im thinking of joins in the discussion (who I havent heard from in awhile chimes in it will be great).

Keep it up guys, I cant tell you how much I GROW from stimulating discussion like this. THANK YOU.

Leo

[OldSchool]

Shimano TRG 200. From an all round perspective, light graphite frame, low maintenance, spool control, 15lb of drag and casts well in less than a hundred dollar package....awesome. I bought these reels as "cheapies" because of the sand and salt exposure and after catching 4 x whiprays the size of a dinning tables I was suitably impressed by the performance. The drags where smooth as, can put on more than what is comfortable for stand up and didn't miss a beat. One of my favorite reels.

If you don't like level wind go a Shimano 15/30. Either one for the cash is surprising value.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

Release's main advantage over Avet is ceramic bearings(hybrid) for the spool, now I wonder if the Avet or someone replaces the bearings with ceramic ones, will it equal or surpass Release?

I just looked at Avet's prices at Charkbait and WHOAH went up $40. Maybe, finally better bearings and what not

[cmaraj1]

ok so im down to the mxl or the lx....??
i will be using a 9foot rod with a 24in butt section, 30lb line and throwing 6oz..

[Nuvole]

Do a bit of maths before hand. Your max distance cast + water depth + 100ft or so for the fight(bigger fish will require more) + space for leader = minimum spool capacity.

[Jeri]

Hi cmaraj1,

God I hate addressing forum replies to a 'nom de guerre'!!!!!!!

Wouldn't it be a whole lot more friendly, if we all used our real names???

Now that you have given some more info, I would suggest that you aim for the mxl mc, and consider shaving some of the magnet, by 0.1mm. That will offer nearly the same high speed free spool as the standard mxl, but then you have the options of more braking available to you, should that setting be too much free spool.

As to line, I would opt to bottom load with 30lb braid of your choice, then top load with the thinnest 30lb line you can get your hands on – thickness is the big issue with surf casting – so something in the order of 0.45mm diameter will be sufficient. Then a soft nylon casting leader to take the knocks and bumps of fishing, as well as the casting stresses.

The LX route would only be necessary should you need big line capacity for something like shore caught sharks.

Enjoy.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[johndtuttle]

Hi All,

John, I would have to disagree with some of your statements, though I would defer that the surf fishing carried out here in southern Africa is somewhat different to the pier and surf scene in USA.

That said, we find without doubt that on a ‘pure distance’ issue any anglers over here that switch from traditional star drag reels over to modern lever drags, they immediately gain distance, and at times this is in the order of 20-30 metres more.

In a pure distance situation and surf casting, ‘free spool’ is the ultimate gain item – if the sinker/lure is not having to drag the line off a spool, then it doesn’t waste limited energy on that aspect, and the energy is used for flight distance.

Sure there are some reels, like the Penn Fathom that do have pretty good free spool, but nothing compared to the free spool of an Avet or a Release. On these three reels, I can speak from very personal experience – same rod, same line size, same angler – the Release and then the Avet, do out cast the Penn Fathom. Even when all three reels have been subjected to the same level of tuning – high speed oils in the bearings.

On the maintenance issue, the Fathom is infinitely more intricate in all the small components than a Release or even the Avet. I have been using an Avet for 5 years now, and have yet to replace any components, and maintenance is little more than servicing the bearings and greasing the gears. Fathoms that I service for clients seem to rely on more frequent maintenance to keep in top condition. And on this aspect we do have some of the harshest surf fishing conditions for our equipment. The Release hasn’t had the time that the Avet has had on the beach, but mainly just suffers a good wash as far as maintenance goes, and less frequent bearing treatment. So, as far as reliability goes, we have found no issues that would set lever drag reels apart from star drag.

The issue of distance casting in a surf situation, when related to spool size and profile is usually one of spool height. Lower profile reels casting further with less problems – and this is borne out by all the lower profile reels being used in the tournament casting scene – they would never consider a narrow and tall spooled reel for their application. And this is where Avet and Release do seem to have got their profiles just right, with various width options within the Avet range to suit the wide variety of casting situations that their reels are used.

The lower profile spools also have an in built braking system due to line level, which assists with less line being delivered to the sinker/lure towards the end of the flight, when the sinker/lure is slowing down – crow’s nests at 150 metres. The line being supplied to the sinker/lure being less per revolution as the spool line level goes down. This is a critical aspect at the very end of all long distance casting, and is one of the reasons that low profile reels are the preferred ‘weapon of choice’.

In a total free choice of reels for long distance casting, I would first choose the Release, then the Avet, followed by most other reels. Just my opinion.



Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Hi Jeri,

Very happy to hear of your success and there is no argument with another man's happiness .

Avets and Accurates both are terrific casters. Avet particularly with their lighter spool design without a drag cover is arguably the best of all the lever drags.

Distance casting of very heavy weights can benefit from some spool weight just as "magnetic cast controls" actually slowing the spool startup and finish can produce better results for many anglers. Tournament casters routinely add weight to both sides of their spool in balance as there is some magic formula for the spool startup inertia and top speed reached with the casting weight and rod action that they have discovered through trial and error. You may have hit just such a sweet spot with your standard gear. However, note that competitive tournament casters uniformly and categorically use star drag reels. They are not set up like what we would consider a fishing reel.

Star Drags have superior "free spool" in the sense that they have less weight to spin (less force required). We prize this for casting of very light weights and live bait. Note that competitive freshwater fisherman never use lever drag reels for casting their light lures.

Star Drags, of course, do not necessarily "spin the longest" (the other use of the "free spool" term) as this is more a question of machined tolerances, bearing quality and preparation of the individual reel. Star Drags unquestionably spin the "lightest". It is this confusing of the popular term "free spool" that has gotten us into trouble here and may not be applicable to your surf fishing casting heavy lead.

Maintenance issues are not related to "small parts" but to the destruction of bearings that lever drag reels specialize in doing and salt water intrusion into the drag system that leads to expensive spool damage. Avet reels are prized for their simplicity and are very easy to tear down. However, most find their "easy" access to replacement pinion bearings, their knowledge of the proper application of grease and the meticulousness of their after fishing removal of salt directly related to how happy they are with their hard fished reel and how "easy" they find working on it. Star drag reels will tolerate much looser maintenance regimens in this regard and do not destroy bearings as part of their fundamental design.

In the final analysis I will never argue with another man's success. When I think of surfcasting I think of casting artificial lures with their lighter weight and greater windage. Your success with casting your Avets is probably reflected in their popularity among the "bait and wait/weight" crowd on our east coast USA and if the OP is planning on that use he should be very happy.


best regards

[cmaraj1]

this is like rocket science...i think im jus gonna get the lx for the capacity and the drag , and load it wit 30lb mono....
ok guys another question...

Whats the thinnest 30lb mono line out there??

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

available in the US, i think momoi and jinkai...

[jaypeegee]

this is like rocket science...i think im jus gonna get the lx for the capacity and the drag , and load it wit 30lb mono....
ok guys another question...

Whats the thinnest 30lb mono line out there??

Bro. Unless you have large hands you are gonna struggle getting a good grip on the LX.
Its not impossible. But it is more difficult than the MXL
Still. Either reel is very good.