12/0's are taking over!

[Shark Hunter]

Seems like no matter how many 12/0's I refurbish, I am constantly finding out new things. I had a heck of a time on my last one with the spool rubbing. It ended up being a warped handle side plate pushing on the spool too much. That was a new one.
This one has brass a brass spacer on the lugs. Never seen that either.


All buttoned up. Two 12/0's with steel gears, ss posts and custom 8 stack! Two down, two to go.

That little green bottle is The ecoseal nonolube that a member here provided me, I have been using that on the bearings and you can definitely tell a difference verses the Reel X. Its good stuff. I'm not affiliated with this ecoseal, I just know it works!

[floating doc]

I'm new to the Senator reels, having always used Sealine reels.  I have bought four since Christmas. It's fun to open them up and see what's inside. The 115L that I had when you were in Destin had the old pre-HT100 drags, stock steel main and pinion gears, and a stainless sleeve.  It seemed like a strange combination.

That's one deep gear on that 12/0. Lots of room for drag washers!

[Shark Hunter]

The new drag washer kit from Scotts is a tad thinner than the old metal washers. I measured some and really couldn't tell a difference on a single washer, but when they are all stacked in. I can fit an eight stack of .120 cf in there. With the stock washers, that last key won't seat all the way. This particular reel was in really good shape, the clicker is a little sloppy, but still works good. all the parts just needed a wipe down. All I had to really use brake cleaner on was the gears and the bearings. Just a good spray and scrub with the toothbrush to remove the old grease packed in the teeth. It still had the old 5 stack asbestos in there. Not any more.

[mrand]

Hey Dayron
I have a 14/0 that also has a spool rubbing and am having a difficult time figuring out if it is the spool or the side plate.
Can you advise me on this? I've loosened the screws on the right side plate just enough so that I can play with it. Loosening the screws obviously isn't the fix but it rubs much less.

I've done a few rebuilds (thanks to this site!)...so I'm comfortable taking it apart completely. I've inspected everything else and the gear and bearings seem ok. I've narrowed it down to the side plate or spool.

My next step is strip the line and remove the spool and roll it to see if it is true.

Hopefully this reel is not totaled.

Thanks in advance for your help
Michael

[Reel 224]

Dayron: I had to laugh when I saw your work area, it looks just like mine...sort of crowded with everything. I like that! You certainly have a large collection of Penn's.

Joe

[Lowprofile]

those 12's are mint.

what do you coat your spools with?  I used to use corrosion X and now use Boeshield T-9. I like the wax residue of T-9 and it seems to stay on better with use.

[Rancanfish]

Dayron? Is there a Nightron too?   

Sorry couldn't resist Daron.

[Shark Hunter]

Hey Dayron
I have a 14/0 that also has a spool rubbing and am having a difficult time figuring out if it is the spool or the side plate.
Can you advise me on this? I've loosened the screws on the right side plate just enough so that I can play with it. Loosening the screws obviously isn't the fix but it rubs much less.

I've done a few rebuilds (thanks to this site!)...so I'm comfortable taking it apart completely. I've inspected everything else and the gear and bearings seem ok. I've narrowed it down to the side plate or spool.

My next step is strip the line and remove the spool and roll it to see if it is true.

Hopefully this reel is not totaled.

Thanks in advance for your help
Michael

If it is a one piece chrome spool Mike, They are pretty tough.
I had this problem on a 12/0 and switched it to another reel and it was fine.
If your spool is a three piece, there is a good chance its toast.
Otherwise, I would say the spool needs shimming, or you have a warped side plate.
The first thing I would do is strip the line from the spool to make sure its not warped.
The side plate on that 12/0 was on the non handle side and it was warped inward, making the spool rub on the handle side.
No Randy, Just Dayron.

[Tightlines667]

Check the stand too.  It should sit flush on a level surface, if it is twisted it csn cause the spool to rub.

[mrand]

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm hijacking your thread Dayron. (alan if you think this is better as a new topic feel free to move this...I'm wondering if it is related to what Dayron experienced).

HERE'S THE CONTEXT:
- The 117 reel was in great shape and I sent it to a repair shop for service a few weeks back. The reel came back to me, poorly packaged, box was opened, minimal internal packing and reel was grinding terribly. It definitely took impact in transit. I got a full refund on service (don't want to mention name of repair shop...it was not
Mystic Reel Parts by the way. They are the best!)
- the good news is I rolled up my sleeves and came here. very thankful for this site and everyone's willingness. I'm a do it "yourself-er" anyway.

AND HERE'S THE UPDATE:
- I thought the spool might be bent so I disassemble the reel and rolled the spool on the floor. It doesn't seem bent...rolls straight and true.
- I used a caliper to measure the width of the spool every inch or so and here are the measurements in mm:
107.16
107.30
107.11
107.30
107.11
107.34
107.58
107.71
107.31
107.81
107.93
108.02
107.83
107.67
107.64
107.56
107.64
107.67
107.58
107.46
107.33

I don't know if those tolerances are normal but it doesn't seem like a totaled spool to me. In fact it seems pretty good really. It's a one piece spool by the way....very heavy and solid.



MY OPINION:
- that the left side plate took impact and that it is causing the spool to rub on the left side. I've removed the spool several times and marked the spool where it rubs. Its rubs based on the position of the side plate, in the same spot every time, not determined or related to the markings I've placed on the spool. It is not constantly rubbing, just in about a 4 inch section.

- When I compared the disassembled reel with the 14/0 schematic, I discovered there was 3 brass shims next to the left bearing..pushing the spool to the right .75mm (the washers are .25mm thick each. Its the little washer I placed next to a standard size drag washer for visual comparison)



- I removed these 3 shims and reassembled the reel. now there is a bunch of left right play in the spool but I smiled when I learned that: It's not grinding any more
- If I push the spool all the way to the right it grinds terribly. If I push the spool all the way to the left it doesn't grind at all and functions perfectly. So I determined that it is the lip/edge of the spool rubbing the warped left side plate...only if the spool is positioned to the right in it's "play".

- long story short, I need to shim it from the right side....a little more than the .75mm I have in shims.
Is there a proper way to do this? Obviously,  I need to shim between the bearing and the bearing cap right? Should I use part number 154-117?

Thankful for this forum and for the knowledge I've acquired here.
Michael

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Tightlines667]

Yes, use the copper spool shims on the schematic (that part number looks correct to me).  Just put them on the right spool shaft to move the spool left.  After shimming, make sure tovtest the spool fully spooled and while under normal load to ensure that no rubbing is occuring.  The measurements you provided for spool width seem to fall within 'acceptable' limits, though I am not positive (I would think +/- 0.6mm would be ideal).  If warped, the spool will usually be out of true in the laterial direction, or the spool shaft itself will will be bent.  But sometimes it can warp in the other direction, or the arbor can be bent.  If you can not detect any obvious wobble, and the spool is contacting the side plate at difderent points on the spool, I would guess it is much more likely that tye stand is warped slightly.  If you can fix the problem by simply shimmimg it, do so.  Otherwise try to bend the stand so it is flush, or replace it.

Hope that helps?

[Shark Hunter]

Sounds like you have it under control Mike.
Don't worry about hijacking anything.
I will tell you I have one more concern. When you get it all shimmed like you want it. Try it under load to be sure it still doesn't rub.
It would be bad to be hooked up and that spool come to a grinding halt.
That always worries me shipping these heavy reels. One good hit and it is messed up.
From the looks of that spool. I believe it is a three piece. There should be a smooth transition from the arbor. Yours has the bump that says three piece.

[Tightlines667]

...I believe it is a three piece. There should be a smooth transition from the arbor. Yours has the bump that says three piece...

Oops.  I didn't see your picture of the spool before I posted the reply.  That is a 3-piece spool, and as such it was not designed to be fished with modern mono lines.  When you spool it woth mono, the mono will likely push outwards on the spool and distort it.  Putting the reel under load will likely only exacerbate the issue (ask me how I know).

The spool (and possibly the reel) should be retired from service and put into a collection for display.  You may want to just cut your loses and sell the whole reel, and buy another used one, or check to see if there is anyone on here that might be willing to trade the spool or the reel.  If it was a 14/0, or a 10/0 3-piece spool with a drilled arbor, I would be your man, since my 2 early display reels have the incorrect 1-piece spools.  You may want to post your reel up in the for sale or trade section with some photos of the bottom, and each side of the reel.  If you don't believe me, about the spool warping under load, spool it up, and try it yourself. 

Your reel spool is pre 1956, if you post some more pictures we might be able to tell you how old the reel appears to be as well.  I do have an old beat up 14/0 with all parts needed to restore her, I may be willing to trade, if your 12/0 is a first generation.  Sorry bout the bad news.

[Shark Hunter]

I believe he has a 14/0 John.
Mike just replied to my 12/0 thread.

[Tightlines667]

I believe he has a 14/0 John.
Mike just replied to my 12/0 thread.

My bad again.  Email me some pictures of the reel, or post em up here, and I might be willing to trade your 3 piece spool for a 1 piece if your interested.  I am on travel until this weekend though.  I was really looking for a 3-piece with a drilled arbor (which yours is not) though since this was the correct spool for my reel.  So if you have another option/solution..take it.